[nfandi]

Another quick finding from CMA Envy review process: the amp completly changes after roughly 450h of break in, apparently no grain anymore and huge improvement in res and staging capabilities, now they place it as a step up to Cayin in many categories. I think the need of break in is an important info for people purchasing or demoing Envy, since many might wonder what the buzz is about in the first couple of weeks.

So, are you saying, because of this person’s comments, that all of the other people who shared “WOW” with us the first time they heard the Envy are completely wrong? That it’s not possible to hear “WOW” moments until 450hrs have passed? Just asking.

 

[Whazzzup]

Try Takatsuki then you will know

 

[Leto Dal]

So, are you saying, because of this person’s comments, that all of the other people who shared “WOW” with us the first time they heard the Envy are completely wrong? That it’s not possible to hear “WOW” moments until 450hrs have passed? Just asking.

Nope you didnt read it right. I am sure for people inexperienced with high end gear there will be a wow moment right away. But for experienced people who are comparing Envy with something like Wa23 or Ha-300b that might(!) not be apparent what makes Envy so special if the unit isn't burned in.

 

[JTbbb]

Been there, done that. The only one for us is actually the lower cost option, think that's the only one with HP out..

Finally got around to rolling drivers this evening, stand outs have been red base (such a nice tone), Sylvania short bottle chrome tops (bit more balanced) and what's blown them all out of the water, Telefunken G73-R. These are the driver tubes I've been looking for, incredible.

B65 didn't float my boat, neither did kenrads (surprised on that one).

Melz inbound along with some ecc32 mullards and still have VT99 to try out but pretty sure the G73's will have a firm place in Envy. Need to wait for TM's to arrive before making the call but loving them with taks.

Be interesting to hear what you think of the ECC32’s. My hd800s sounded great on med gain, but I couldn’t get Susvara to sound good, especially bass. I think I had Elrog ER’s in.

 

[nwavesailor]

Well they compare to other amps with the same tubes, therefore they certainly tried to switch tubes in order to eliminate the differences between them.

Actual device burn in is nearly non existent.
Most of it is brain burn in and "being used to a sound"
Transducers or other moving parts might be affected slightly more, but even there it's basically negligible.

The Device warming up to certain temperature might have a bigger impact than burn in. However it's easily reachable by just letting the Device run for a hour.

Cards on the table, I have never been a big 'burn in' guy.
Yes, I understand that caps do need to form and I agree regarding moving parts. I do not have golden ears but usually know how an amp, tube or dare I say wires sound and if I like it from very early on. I don't understand how a wire needs to 'settle' before it sounds it's best. I agree that tubes need to be up to temp to sound their best but I have not heard X tube sound grainy and congested at this many hours then better then worse and so on. I'm not questioning the Bell Labs folks regarding the WE 300B and the need for an initial 9 hours before they were released but hundreds of hours to sound their best?

I know Thomas puts some time on new Elrogs before final testing and releasing them but I have a hard time with the need of hundreds of hours to sound their best.
Maybe that's why I went with Elrogs

If you are a burn in believer, great.
I am not (other than brain burn in) and we can agree to disagree!

 

[Leto Dal]

I suggest staying agnostic in that regard, you might be surprised one day. If i learned something in past couple of years in audio is to avoid definitive statements when it comes to cables, power and burn in, unless I really empirically tested something excessively.

 

[nwavesailor]

I suggest staying agnostic in that regard, you might be surprised one day. If i learned something in past couple of years in audio is to avoid definitive statements when it comes to cables, power and burn in, unless I really empirically tested something excessively.

I'll try to keep an open mind and may be surprised one day!
We all hear differently and also have a sound we prefer. Perhaps I have been too hasty in an initial evaluation or a tube,wire or component but I am not terribly patient to wait until X hours hoping something will transform.

 

[nfandi]

Nope you didnt read it right. I am sure for people inexperienced with high end gear there will be a wow moment right away. But for experienced people who are comparing Envy with something like Wa23 or Ha-300b that might(!) not be apparent what makes Envy so special if the unit isn't burned in.

Ok, I accept that. But you are accepting, because of this one review, that the Envy needs 450hrs burn-in? What do your own ears and experience tell you personally? Or are you just accepting what he says as the the truth for all of us?

 

[jlbrach]

I call bull on that.
No amp "completely changes" with burn in.

I agree, that is total BS..one can assert tubes improve with some burn in but 450 hours for the envy itself...silly

 

[walterboss]

I agree, that is total BS..one can assert tubes improve with some burn in but 450 hours for the envy itself...silly

An easy way to back up his assertion is whether I feel like it's a 'different amp' when I get it back.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I've got zero emotional investment in either outcome, and I'll give my honest assessment when I get the amp back from him.

Worth noting also that one of the other guys who heard Envy as grainy prior to this apparent turnaround will have a chance to listen to it again before it comes back to me.

I have an open mind, but I know what that amp sounded like when I sent it off. It was darn good. And if it's changed to the degree Koji claims I'd be staggered if I can't tell.

But I'm not waiting on it coming back 'primed' to hear huge changes in it. I simply don't have expectations.

I'll share impressions in due course.

 

[Leto Dal]

Ok, I accept that. But you are accepting, because of this one review, that the Envy needs 450hrs burn-in? What do your own ears and experience tell you personally? Or are you just accepting what he says as the the truth for all of us?

Got my used and likely with 500h+ playtime so no idea. My impressions of the amp been absolutely contrary to what Koji reported in the first couple of weeks, right now they are pretty much identical down to the tube types I prefer with the amp and A/B with other 300b. So there def might be something to the Envy requires a break in -thing.

 

[nfandi]

Got my used and likely with 500h+ playtime so no idea. My impressions of the amp been absolutely contrary to what Koji reported in the first couple of weeks, right now they are pretty much identical down to the tube types I prefer with the amp and A/B with other 300b. So there def might be something to the Envy requires a break in -thing.

Ah yes, I remember now that you got yours ‘at a favourable price’ from Thanatos. Will you and Mr T be getting together at some point to compare the older Mrs Walnut (my name for the Envy I borrowed from Thomas) with the ‘new and improved’ Mrs Walnut AE? That would indeed be an interesting little party or ‘Envy Fest’.

 

[turbofeet]

Quite liking the KEN-RAD CKR 6SN7GT VT-231 Black Beauty tubes. Very clean with nice bass extension. They really were brand new looking NOS from the lovely (usually overpriced) eBay.

MU2 has had 24hrs to burn in. It's enough for now lol...well until the Monaco Grand Prix in an hour.

Happy Saturday!

 

[Doug2507]

Quite liking the KEN-RAD CKR 6SN7GT VT-231 Black Beauty tubes. Very clean with nice bass extension. They really were brand new looking NOS from the lovely (usually overpriced) eBay.

MU2 has had 24hrs to burn in. It's enough for now lol...well until the Monaco Grand Prix in an hour.

Happy Saturday!

Haha, was running the very same tube this morning, don't think they do well with taks, mids end up a little too flat probably due to bass being quite prominent.

 

[turbofeet]

Haha, was running the very same tube this morning, don't think they do well with taks, mids end up a little too flat probably due to bass being quite prominent.

I always end up putting the Melz back in after some time but I quite like them.