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Feliks-Audio ELISE...New thread.
Jul 5, 2016 at 10:05 AM Post #12,527 of 13,846
howie13 said:
   
I've had no problem using 6N7's as drivers and have just tried them as power tubes using 6SN7's as drivers and again no distortion or other problem.
I did notice the volume needed turning up a bit compared to the dual 6J5 and 6BL7 powers for each channel, but it sounded none the worse for that.
 
I measure 6.4V with load, (touching the 7,8 pins of the driver whilst it's partially inserted and glowing) and 6.5V with no load, (inserting the pins of my multi-meter into a socket saver, as Elise's sockets are too thin to insert the multimeter pins).
 
I hope I did this right.
 
So far EL3N's sound good too, but have not had much time with them.
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Thanks for reporting your measurement Howie13. Yes, I meant distortion with the use of 6N7G's as drivers. I'm happy your Elise works fine with these right out of the box. 6.4 V on the heaters is clearly higher than mine (6.0) but it doesn't explain things as Vinylsavor also has 6.0V and his Elise has no problem at all with 6N7G. The differences between amps may well be elsewhere. E.g. , in the cathode resistor that controls the working point of the tubes. I'm giving up on this: I think it requires someone with real insight in tube amplifier design to reliably assess what is going on with this (otherwise minor) variation between Elises. The good news is : now I have an external power supply, I can raise the heater voltage a little and that is enough to get 6N7G running in my amp reliably. Being pragmatic can be a good thing. Also, I'd like to remark that I'm not blaming Feliks for this variation between amps. Sure, I'd like it to play with every tubes that others report BUT it would be unfair to claim it should work with tubes that it was not designed for and that may be close to 'out of specs' for this amp.
 
Jul 5, 2016 at 1:28 PM Post #12,528 of 13,846
audict123 said:
 
Thanks for reporting your measurement Howie13. Yes, I meant distortion with the use of 6N7G's as drivers. I'm happy your Elise works fine with these right out of the box. 6.4 V on the heaters is clearly higher than mine (6.0) but it doesn't explain things as Vinylsavor also has 6.0V and his Elise has no problem at all with 6N7G. The differences between amps may well be elsewhere. E.g. , in the cathode resistor that controls the working point of the tubes. I'm giving up on this: I think it requires someone with real insight in tube amplifier design to reliably assess what is going on with this (otherwise minor) variation between Elises. The good news is : now I have an external power supply, I can raise the heater voltage a little and that is enough to get 6N7G running in my amp reliably. Being pragmatic can be a good thing. Also, I'd like to remark that I'm not blaming Feliks for this variation between amps. Sure, I'd like it to play with every tubes that others report BUT it would be unfair to claim it should work with tubes that it was not designed for and that may be close to 'out of specs' for this amp.
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I'm the same as you-once I get my teeth into something I can't easily let go but as you say it's a minor variation and you have lots of other great options so it's not that important I guess in the grand scheme. Maybe even different tubes of the same type will behave differently too.
 
Perhaps also variation in mains voltage affects things in ways we don't understand as well, as others have remarked.
 
If we didn't stop investigating sometimes we would never have time to enjoy the music. lol.
 
Jul 5, 2016 at 11:49 PM Post #12,529 of 13,846
Well this threadz' been in a lull for a while, time to spice it up a bit. @JazzVinyl and @UntilThen you should especially find these interesting:
 
 

Hi-Res 24/94 vs Flac vs CD vs Mp3 files download comparison - Page 8
http://www.head-fi.org/t/720547/hi-res-24-94-vs-flac-vs-cd-vs-mp3-files-download-comparison/105

The Myths of vinyl
http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Myths_(Vinyl)

 
Jul 5, 2016 at 11:51 PM Post #12,530 of 13,846
The great Joe Zawinul - 6AM Walking On The Nile...

RIP Joe....we loved ya!!

Peace to the LUCKY ONES with the magic soundstage....

Happy Soul Travelin'......


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8l7lzEfrA0[/VIDEO]



:p
 
Jul 6, 2016 at 12:02 AM Post #12,531 of 13,846
decentlevi said:
Well this threadz' been in a lull for a while, time to spice it up a bit. @JazzVinyl
 and @UntilThen
 you should especially find these interesting:


Hi-Res 24/94 vs Flac vs CD vs Mp3 files download comparison - Page 8
[COLOR=000000]http://www.head-fi.org/t/720547/hi-res-24-94-vs-flac-vs-cd-vs-mp3-files-download-comparison/105[/COLOR]

Click to expand...


I certainly have vinyls that sound better than the CD - if you heard them side by side, no argument, you would agree..

But, I don't think one medium is automatically "better" than the other.

It's how much $$$ was spent on the Mastering that makes ALL the difference...in either medium.

I also have CD's that sound way better than Vinyls. So again, it's the mastering, this is where the magic is made, or lost.

Cheers, LUCKY PEEPS!!

P.S. -
Be happy that we live in an age when thousands of perfect sounding songs fit in your pocket, and you never need be away from your most beloved music.

We are truly LUCKY...!!!!


:p


.
 
Jul 6, 2016 at 7:23 PM Post #12,532 of 13,846
pctazhp said:
  It's a 3-day weekend here in the USA and I've got a little extra time and more random thoughts running through my head.
 
I'm glad FA will take care of @DecentLevi. I don't know any of the details but it seems FA was fully aware of how the amp had been used, and was willing to assume responsibility - so all is good in Eliseland ))
 
I personally don't care what people chose to do with or to their own amps. I am concerned when some of the rhetoric we use (me included - I plead guilty) to describe our own personal experiences jeopardizes the credibility of the thread and might frighten some potential buyers away. Especially when our words run the risk of suggesting to a potential buyer that the Elise is seriously compromised by the tubes chosen by FA and external power, Towers of Babel, adapters conceived in Transylvania and produced in China, or very expensive and difficult-to-find tubes will be required to achieve long-term, very satisfying listening enjoyment with the Elise.
 
On a different point, I  have problems with some comments that have been posted elsewhere about the Elise. I am amazed at the arrogance of someone who will borrow the Elise for a few days, try it with a limited number of tubes (many of which are not specified) and then pontificate on its strengths and weaknesses. Murky bass??? Give me a break!!!!! Doesn't have the macro-dynamics or "authority" of the best tube amps???  I haven't heard the "best" tube amps but that sounds like a lot of babble to me.
 
I find that in my system, 1-tube-per-socket gives me all I could want. And I feel no need to upgrade to a "better" amp. But that's just me.
 
The main upgrade I want in my system is a headphone that combines the strengths of the T1 and HD800. When anyone discovers that, please let me know)))
 
By the way, my experience in having spent a lot of time with both the T1 Gen 2 and HD800S with the Elise strongly suggests to me that any perceived limitations in the Elise are much more likely to be limitations of the primary headphone used to audition it rather than an inherent limitation of the Elise.
 
Measuring heater amperage??? Sounds like great fun, but curious as to whether the goal is more than pure entertainment ))))
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Actually I don't think it takes away from the Elise at all.  From everyone's findings here it seems to me like a very capable tube amp.  However, the "modded" Elise is something you do at your own risk.  The fact that Feliks Audio is fixing this is going above and beyond and I hope that is realized here.  If I were an amp maker and someone did this to an amp I built I would in no way warranty this.  If amps were meant to accept multiple tubes in one socket they would have built them that way.  You don't know what is going to happen to something by adding your own take on how an amp should be.  Could shorten the life of the amp or anything inside it.  You have no way of knowing.
 
There is no argument meant to be had here as it's very simple.  Every manufacturer has this disclosure on their instruction manuals for a reason and there is no grey area to be had.
 
Our limited warranty is void if the product is returned with tampered labels, any alternations or in case of improper use.
 
Jul 6, 2016 at 7:39 PM Post #12,533 of 13,846
velvetx said:
   
Actually I don't think it takes away from the Elise at all.  From everyone's findings here it seems to me like a very capable tube amp.  However, the "modded" Elise is something you do at your own risk.  The fact that Feliks Audio is fixing this is going above and beyond and I hope that is realized here.  If I were an amp maker and someone did this to an amp I built I would in no way warranty this.  If amps were meant to accept multiple tubes in one socket they would have built them that way.  You don't know what is going to happen to something by adding your own take on how an amp should be.  Could shorten the life of the amp or anything inside it.  You have no way of knowing.
 
There is no argument meant to be had here as it's very simple.  Every manufacturer has this disclosure on their instruction manuals for a reason and there is no grey area to be had.
 
Our limited warranty is void if the product is returned with tampered labels, any alternations or in case of improper use.
Click to expand...

If your comments are directed at me, you are pretty much preaching to the choir 
normal_smile .gif
 I'm a 1-tube-per-socket kind of guy. And while I may get wild and crazy and run something like the TS7236s in the power sockets, I don't wonder very far off the farm. 
atsmile.gif

 
Jul 8, 2016 at 12:11 AM Post #12,538 of 13,846
A precision, uncluttered, consistent soundstage. To me, that is what makes Elise so special.

I recently obtained a different tube amp that uses 1/2 the same compliment of tubes that Elise uses in its default specification.

The other amp does one thing better than Elise. It has (to my ears) a much nicer bass note. And it is a nice sounding amp, overall.

When I compare the two side by side - Elise outshines the other amp, because of it's incredible soundstage presentation.

My test song was one by the jazz trio of young musicians: "Medeski, Martin and Wood" the song off the album "It's a jungle in here" is called "Moti Mo". It s a good one for this test because the trumpet player at one point passes air through his horn without actually playing any notes...it's subtle, it's a fine detail that was intentionally recorded, but has to be presented with distance, space and air between the instruments to recognize the sound, and appreciate its place in the context of the piece.

Elise digs out the detail beautifully and the trumpet player sounds like he is exactly 8 or 9 feet away from you, on your right. No other instruments crowd him. It sounds absolutely REAL because it's presented that way.

Same source into the other amp...and wanting to hear the same soundstage...does not happen. The other amp does not have the Elise soundstage magic.
Oh the sound is there, it's clear as a bell, but it's not isolated, does not exist in its own space and sounds like the other two musicians are standing in front of the trumpet player.

Both amps sound good.

But Elise really does a much better job of clarifying and placing the musicians just as though they are really there, in the same configuration they were in, when the music was created.

I applaude Elise....it's is a very special piece of gear, indeed.

Cheers to all the LUCKY ones, with Elise and its beautiful, precise and totally believable, soundstage.



:p




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