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Feliks Audio Elise Impressions Thread – a New Start (please read first post for summary)
Jun 10, 2017 at 5:23 AM Post #8,356 of 11,833
angpsi said:
Quick addition after listening to Paul's Boutique and Lianne LaHavas: the TS can definitely be less offensive to the recording and paint more of a global picture. The Sylvania WGT sounds like it has more gain: a bit louder, with a very big slam, along with the precision which they flush out all the details with—kinda reminds me of the EL12 but without making my ears bleed! The Sylvania WGT is definitely impressive. If I only got the TS I wouldn't be feeling as rewarded for the money I spent.

EDIT: Just to clarify as I'm listening, both can do detail! Or, now that I've heard the Sylvania I can definitely appreciate the TS, if it makes any sense.
Click to expand...

IMHO, this is basically a matter of synergy of the drivers with the excellent Mullard 6080. This is a wide bandwith, highly resolving and detailed tube top to bottom, with just a touch of warmth. If you pair it with, say, Siemens C3gs, (that have this same character in spades), then you have maybe too much of a good thing. Bass would be super tight and dynamic, but highs can go over the top sometimes, and overall you got an hyper detailed sound which I personally do not like too much. Both Sylvania WGTs and TS 6SN7s are a much better match, but with the Mullards I would go for the Tung Sols, the good ones have that trademark house sound: not very detailed but round and bold, a wide, dynamic sound with spatial qualities that I value the most. The Mullards, as good as they are (I have a pair of NOS, 65' vintage) can be a bit dry at times, so the TS are a great match. And you do not need over hyped and expensive ones, for example, TS 6SN7GTB, tall bottles from the early or mid fifties are excellent tubes at very reasonable prices, ( just be sure of the vintage) as do are GTB chrome tops Sylvanias of the same era, however with a very different sound.

I feel that the opposite situation (detailed drivers and "mellow" powers) is equally relevant in terms of SQ: if you keep the drivers constant as a reference (C3gs for example) the final flavor is given by the powers, and in 6AS7G territory this is a fascinating experience. The C3g characteristics, among them a super extended, even a bit aggresive top end, are complementary with the somewhat laid back top end of all the 6AS7Gs, including the great 5998. This adds just the right touch of sparkle and liveness. Of course, with the 5998 this is a stellar pair, and I was hooked. As allways happens in this hobby, I regarded all my other 6AS7Gs (some 25 of them) as inferior to the 5998s, and decided to give them a rest, saving some hours on these VERY expensive tubes. I replaced the 5998s with a pair of vintage JAN Chathams that I even forgot I had, and fully expected a much inferior sound. I was totally wrong. Yes, the Chathams do not have quite the extension or ultimate bold and big sound of the 5998s, but are supremely sweeeeeeet tubes, with a very pleasant, relaxed, seductive tonality that I ended enjoying a lot with all types of music. More so than with the 5998s. Tired of so much resolution, perhaps ? Lesson learned.....
 
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Jun 10, 2017 at 10:49 AM Post #8,357 of 11,833
Don't over think tube combinations. Elise will sound good regardless. Each time you power on your amp and put on the music, if you start to listen how the tubes sound, you will miss the music. :)

So stop analysing and start enjoying your music.
 
Jun 10, 2017 at 12:16 PM Post #8,358 of 11,833
UntilThen said:
Don't over think tube combinations. Elise will sound good regardless. Each time you power on your amp and put on the music, if you start to listen how the tubes sound, you will miss the music. :)

So stop analysing and start enjoying your music.
Click to expand...

Listening to music is what counts the most!!!!
 
Jun 10, 2017 at 1:48 PM Post #8,359 of 11,833
rosgr63 said:
Listening to music is what counts the most!!!!
Click to expand...
@rosgr63!!! Sent you a pm quite some time ago! Thought you quit the game; I was really counting on your collection to gain some knowledge on tubes (before I spent a fortune on some of them)!
Good to see you back!
 
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Jun 10, 2017 at 2:07 PM Post #8,360 of 11,833
Johnnysound said:
IMHO, this is basically a matter of synergy of the drivers with the excellent Mullard 6080. This is a wide bandwith, highly resolving and detailed tube top to bottom, with just a touch of warmth. If you pair it with, say, Siemens C3gs, (that have this same character in spades), then you have maybe too much of a good thing. Bass would be super tight and dynamic, but highs can go over the top sometimes, and overall you got an hyper detailed sound which I personally do not like too much. Both Sylvania WGTs and TS 6SN7s are a much better match, but with the Mullards I would go for the Tung Sols, the good ones have that trademark house sound: not very detailed but round and bold, a wide, dynamic sound with spatial qualities that I value the most. The Mullards, as good as they are (I have a pair of NOS, 65' vintage) can be a bit dry at times, so the TS are a great match. And you do not need over hyped and expensive ones, for example, TS 6SN7GTB, tall bottles from the early or mid fifties are excellent tubes at very reasonable prices, ( just be sure of the vintage) as do are GTB chrome tops Sylvanias of the same era, however with a very different sound.

I feel that the opposite situation (detailed drivers and "mellow" powers) is equally relevant in terms of SQ: the driver should be transparent, extended, powerful in terms of a solid flow of current, if any because 6AS7Gs are designed for that, and if you keep the drivers constant as a reference (C3gs for example) the final flavor is given definitely by the powers. In 6AS7G territory this is a fascinating experience. The merits of the C3g "per se" are irrelevant here, it is not even a "true" triode, and probably there are many other tubes that "sound" better, but as a driver of vintage, "coke bottle" 6AS7Gs it is just exceptional. Its characteristics, among them a super extended, even a bit aggresive top end, are absolutely complementary with the somewhat laid back top end of all the 6AS7Gs, including the great 5998. This adds just the right touch of sparkle and liveness. Of course, with the 5998 this is a stellar pair, and I was hooked. As allways happens in this hobby, I regarded all my other 6AS7Gs (some 25 of them) as inferior to the 5998, but finally decided to give them a rest, saving some hours on these VERY expensive tubes. I replaced the 5998s with a pair of vintage JAN Chathams that I even forgot I had, and fully expected a much inferior sound. I was totally wrong. Yes, the Chathams do not have quite the extension or ultimate bold and big sound of the 5998s, but are supremely sweeeeeeet tubes, with a very pleasant, relaxed, seductive tonality that I ended enjoying a lot with all types of music. More so than with the 5998s. Tired of so much resolution, perhaps ? Lesson learned.....
Click to expand...
Hi @Johnnysound, don't listen to UT he's still lost in his Yggdrasil fueled Euforia riding his "buy one get two audio treasures" bargain HD800s!

Though I haven't tried the 6sn7 with an 6as7, I couldn't agree more on your description of the sound signature of my recently acquired tubes. Of course I only heard them for a day, but indeed I thought the TS were a more 'coherent' match to the Mullard 6080. Still, the wgt are far more impressive and, come Monday, I'll be sure to match them with my stock Svetlana 6S13N. Unfortunately I don't have any other 6as7 to compare.

My knowledge is still growing, along with my tubes collection. Thankfully most people generally share a consensus about which of these tubes are worth pursuing, and this accumulated knowledge is very helpful for us new buyers to spend our (to my detriment, limited) funds!

Unless I shared @UntilThen's unlimited resources and talent to strike a bargain deal, in which case I'd go for the stars!
 
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Jun 10, 2017 at 3:38 PM Post #8,361 of 11,833
Heh :o2smile: Addicted To Audio has bargains all the time. Look at their price now for HD800S .... yes the S version... going for AUD$1499 which is US$1128. How cheap is that? I got mine HD800 for AUD$1284. That makes the 2 versions about $200 aussie dollars difference. So @angpsi send me your money and I'll buy the HD800S for you, test it out on my Euforia and then shipped it to you. How's that? We could do that with the Utopia too.... or the Abyss :ksc75smile:

https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/prod...zZal5dW3q2nMrEtoFSheE-mEqQoPh0IvkYRoCA5bw_wcB

As for my talent in making a deal. My only talent is making the right connections. So I suggest you talk to @rosgr63 and see if he has anymore tubes to sell to you. When I'm done with 6sn7 and 6as7, I can sell you mine. :ksc75smile:
 
Jun 10, 2017 at 5:11 PM Post #8,364 of 11,833
When I find myself in times of trouble
tube amp Elise comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be, let it be.

And when the broken hearted people in this thread disagree,
there will be tube rolling, let it be, let it be.

For though they may be disillusioned, there will be a tube that they will seek
There will be an answer, let it be, let it be.
 
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Jun 10, 2017 at 5:13 PM Post #8,365 of 11,833
Jun 10, 2017 at 5:15 PM Post #8,366 of 11,833
UntilThen said:
When I find myself in times of trouble
tube amp Elise comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be, let it be.

And when the broken hearted people in this thread agree,
there will be tube rolling, let it be, let it be.

For though they may be disillusioned, there will be a tube that they will seek
There will be an answer, let it be, let it be.
Click to expand...
Laughing my guts out! :o2smile:
 
Jun 10, 2017 at 5:40 PM Post #8,368 of 11,833
Who said this?

“There are not more than five musical notes, yet the combinations of these five give rise to more melodies than can ever be heard.

There are not more than five primary colours, yet in combination
they produce more hues than can ever been seen.

There are not more than five cardinal tastes, yet combinations of
them yield more flavours than can ever be tasted.”
 
Jun 11, 2017 at 4:16 AM Post #8,370 of 11,833
angpsi said:
@rosgr63!!! Sent you a pm quite some time ago! Thought you quit the game; I was really counting on your collection to gain some knowledge on tubes (before I spent a fortune on some of them)!
Good to see you back!
Click to expand...

My apologies with the new system update I got lost.
Quit headphones after 50 year of listening?
 
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