[pctazhp]

  Siemens are definitely not inferior to any EL12 or EL12N I've heard, including Telefunken, Valvo, RFT and RWN.
 
I know it's tempting to try and define their differences but in all honesty I can't say they differ much, if at all.
 
At one time I thought Telefunken and Valvo were a bit warmer and RFT and RWM a bit clearer and dynamic, but the more I listen and move the tubes around the more they all sound similar.
 
All excellent sounding as UT has posted above. I just mix and match without looking any more at the manufacturer. I couldn't afford a full set of 4 or 6 of each anyway.

 
The only one which may be a bit different is the spez of any manufacturer which may be a little more neutral ie a little less bright at the top end-but it's all relative because all these EL11/12 tubes are only slightly bright of neutral anyway-nothing fatiguing, just enough to give vitality and energy to the music.

Howie:  I just pinned this to first page. Thanks )))

 

[angpsi]

  EL12N and EL12
 
(...)
It's no surprise that the last 100 posts have been mainly devoted to EL11, EL12, EL12N and EL12 Spez....... and from the majority of Elise owners here. It is almost a unanimous decisions by everyone... I said 'almost'. 

 

Well, I'm happy that @HPLobster and his concertmaster father confirm that I'm not entirely bonkers with how much I enjoy the stock Svets + Psvane setup. Looking forward to your further impressions as you move on with your tube rolling venture! Just FIY, Lukasz suggested I might want to try out the Melz 6N8S since I'm up for this type of sound; and he didn't even tell me to buy the exotic, uber expensive ones!
 
#EDIT: forgot to mention that @hypnos1 (who's the only one here who's had any experience with them) has found the Melz to be quirky—to say the least; and several other users seem to agree, but also say that when they work, they sing wonderfully. Just a word of caution.
 
Still, as I wrote on the Euforia thread, just before I left I received the goods from my last spending spree on the EL tubes: 2x TF EL12st, 2x TF EL11, and on Valvo EL11 to pair with my other single one (oval plate, alas). This should be my last attempt to be sold to the EL sound; if it fails, be on the lookout for a massive dump of my inventory!
 
Cheers! (—that's what spending one week in London does to you!)

 

[pctazhp]

Giving ELs a break. TS6SN7(original issue)/GEC6AS7G. Desk a mess. Life in a little better shape. Music??? PURE HEAVEN

 

 

[HPLobster]

  Well, I'm happy that @HPLobster and his concertmaster father confirm that I'm not entirely bonkers with how much I enjoy the stock Svets + Psvane setup. Looking forward to your further impressions as you move on with your tube rolling venture! Just FIY, Lukasz suggested I might want to try out the Melz 6N8S since I'm up for this type of sound; and he didn't even tell me to buy the exotic, uber expensive ones!
 
Still, as I wrote on the Euforia thread, just before I left I received the goods from my last spending spree on the EL tubes: 2x TF EL12st, 2x TF EL11, and on Valvo EL11 to pair with my other single one (oval plate, alas). This should be my last attempt to be sold to the EL sound; if it fails, be on the lookout for a massive dump of my inventory!
 
Cheers! (—that's what spending one week in London does to you!)

Nice!

 I shall put the Melz-tubes on my future "shopping list"!
So, does this mean you have gathered bad impressions before or am I misinterpretating? Anyway, I am eagerly awaiting your impressions on the ELs!
 
 
Cheers! (that´s what wishing I could spend the weekend in London does to me 

) 

 

[UntilThen]

   
Your description is entirely consistent with my experience. Thanks for all your hard work on describing different combos. Is this your last one? Did you save this as the best for last? Or are there more to come in your current series???

 
That's it for now until the next wonder light bulb comes along. If EF80 and EF86 sounds good on Elise, you'll hear from me otherwise I've gone fishing. 

 
I'll let others do their impressions now and will sit back with a vodka in one hand and a Cuban cigar in another..... oh it's not lighted cos I don't smoke. 

 

[UntilThen]

What about Siemens EL12? Are they in any way inferior?

 
Siemens EL12 are as good as the Valvos and Telefunkens. I've only listed the latter 2 because you can buy identical pairs and NOS.
 
Looks like someone even bought the quad Siemens EL12.

 

[Frederick Rea]

  Hi FR,
 
Thanks for the updated table. However, I could not find the amplification factor for EL11, EL12, EL12N and EL12 Spezial. Maybe we have to ask Oskari for the German word for amplification/gain factor on the spec sheets?
 
Edit: Here are a number of spec sheets but I don't know the name of what I am looking for:
 
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheetsE1.html
 
Actually, the name is Farsterkungsfaktor but I can't find it listed for the EL11-12 tubes.

Sorry
Already updated
H13. Yes it is. Thank you

 

[HPLobster]

  Hi FR,
 
Thanks for the updated table. However, I could not find the amplification factor for EL11, EL12, EL12N and EL12 Spezial. Maybe we have to ask Oskari for the German word for amplification/gain factor on the spec sheets?
 
Edit: Here are a number of spec sheets but I don't know the name of what I am looking for:
 
https://frank.pocnet.net/sheetsE1.html
 
Actually, the name is Farsterkungsfaktor but I can't find it listed for the EL11-12 tubes.

Actually, the right spelling would be "Verstärkungsfaktor" - maybe this helps when search sweeping for it.

 

[mordy]

Hi angpsi,
 
No need to apologize for the tube combination that you like. We all have different equipment and taste, and the main thing is to enjoy the music and the listening experience.
 
I am in an enviable position LOL because nobody can argue with me about what my best is since I don't know of anybody else who is running TFK EL11 with EL6 tubes as powers.,,,
 
Re those Melz tubes, make sure that you get return privileges if you buy them; even Lukasz wrote that they had trouble supplying them since so many had to be rejected.

 

[pctazhp]

@HOWIE13  Sorry. Just realized I failed to complete pinning you. Now it's complete )))

 

[mordy]

Hi HP,
 
You are right about the spelling. Even so, I could only find that line on the spec sheet for the EL6.
 
My keyboard does not have the a with two dots above. In my native Swedish many words use the a with the two dots, as well an a with a small circle and an o with two dots.
 
In the Oskari tradition of few words:
 
å means river
 
ö means island
 
(Found a virtual Swedish keyboard)
 
I still like the word Klirrfaktor which i think means

[left] Harmonic distortion [/left]

 

[angpsi]

  (...)
Re those Melz tubes, make sure that you get return privileges if you buy them; even Lukasz wrote that they had trouble supplying them since so many had to be rejected.

Definitely so; that's consistent to my own extensive online research. Really hoping to be able to hear them first before I buy; still trying to make time to finally meet my collector compatriot and have an extensive listening session on his wide selection of tubes! Hopefully he might have indulged in the Melzs as well...
 

  Nice!

 I shall put the Melz-tubes on my future "shopping list"!
So, does this mean you have gathered bad impressions before or am I misinterpretating? Anyway, I am eagerly awaiting your impressions on the ELs!
 
 
Cheers! (that´s what wishing I could spend the weekend in London does to me 

) 

As per @mordy 's note, be on the lookout to try only if you get return privileges (cf. my #EDIT note—haven't tried them myself yet, though). In regard to the ELs, you can find full reports of my adventures if you look back to my old posts in this thread or the Euforia thread (just click on my profile). I've found them to be very good, but I kept returning to the Svetlana plus Psvane for their more effortless sound signature. Perhaps I'm running on too much stress lately in my life, and I'm really desperate for some relaxing time while listening to music! IMO the ELs were too much of a demanding listen on my HD600s... But, as always, that's just me and my ears telling the tale! #minorityreport

 

[hypnos1]

Hi guys...lots I'd love to say, but domestic responsibilities limit, alas! 

...Anyway :  @pctazhp...sorry, my own contribution to your first post is delayed...but it looks like you've got plenty already LOL!!

.
 
I really enjoyed your post on your Dad's response @HPLobster...can't wait for his reaction with other tubes in situ - but who knows...he might not like them lol!!!

 
@aqsw...I really do hope you have more success with ALL your tubes in Euforia...certainly was strange, your experience with some of them in Elise!

...
 
@angpsi...I hope you too manage to achieve nirvana with your EL tubes...some do appear to be more fortunate than others with these...GOOD LUCK!

 
Lastly, on the subject of gain/amplification...from what I've gathered, "gain" figures are purely max ones - the actual operational figure is determined by the amp's circuit configuration. And...this figure is the voltage gain....not the final power output current. Plus, it appears that transconductance (gm) could well be a much more useful measurement indicator than often realised lol?!

 
Sorry...gotta go...BFN!

 

[mordy]

Hi angpsi,
 
I agree with what you are saying - some tubes are so detailed that it is hard to relax while listening - they demand your complete attention LOL
 
The best combination is the one where you can just enjoy the music, or, when you are in the mood, you can listen to all the details and nuances.
 
Musical vs analytical - the best tubes combine both IMHO.

 

[richdytch]

While we are on the subject of Mullard 6080, or at least a few of us are... 
 
I've noticed that one of mine has recently started emitting a single loud 'pop' sound when it's been switched on for roughly 10-15 minutes. Do you folks know if this is anything to worry about? Potentially a harbinger of worse things to come? 
 
It's the only power tube I have which has ever done this. 
 
Rich