[HOWIE13]

  So I just chanced upon this discovery:

Shuguang Treasure CV181-Z. These look to be some outstanding performers, and finally we would get an ST-shaped driver tube, as these are a 6SN7 replacement. I think anyone considering this should put aside any bias against Chinese made products - after all HiFiman is Chinese too. I'm personally not going this route yet, but would love to hear from anyone who might take the plunge on this one for the Elise, and I'm sure your ears will thank you too! 
 
A little reading on these 'treasures':
http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6SN7-Tube-Types/Shuguang-Treasure-CV181-Z
http://www.head-fi.org/t/479031/6sn7-tube-addicts/5955#post_12913875
http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/shuguang_treasures_cv181_e.html
 
PS- These are newer manufactured tubes and are even available on Amazon

 
We've mentioned these on this thread before.
 
Nice performers, smooth and neutral no microphonics, but not very dynamic. Average soundstage- not, in my opinion, 'outstanding performers', but I see they have come down in price recently so could be worth a try if you want this sort of sound.
 
See post#134:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/813488/feliks-audio-elise-impressions-thread-a-new-start-please-read-first-post-for-summary/120 
 
and more on the next page (p10) of this thread. #137 and #149.

 

[HOWIE13]

  So I've decided I'll probably go for 1 pair each 6FQ7 and 6CG7, and 1 pair each of 12AT7 and 12AV7. The 12A_7 tubes will require the adapter mentioned on the previous page. Surprisingly though it looked like Howie was using the 6FQ7 / 6CG7 in the ECC88 to 6SN7 adapter... are you sure that's safe? I was told these need their own adapter. Maybe I will get a dedicated 6FQ7 / 6CG7 to 6SN7 adapter just to be on the safe side.
 
Also @HOWIE13, I was using my custom-modded HD-650 headphones for the tube comparisons earlier, mentioned in this mod thread here

 
Thanks for the info.
 
Good luck with the 6FQ7/6CG7. I also read on the Bottlehead Forum about their expansive sound stage but I didn't find them particularly so. Maybe it's because I'm comparing them in Elise with the capaciousness of the 5998, EL3N, and your, now wilting, Christmas Tree. 

 

 

[HOWIE13]

@DecentLevi
 
'Surprisingly though it looked like Howie was using the 6FQ7 / 6CG7 in the ECC88 to 6SN7 adapter... are you sure that's safe?'
 
Pin-outs are the same, and they sound safe.  

 

[mordy]

Hi DL,
 
Here is a picture of my collection of some 15 6FQ7/6CG7 tubes. I have GE, Raytheon and Sears (Sylvania) tubes. PM me if you want to buy any.
 

 
I also have 8V FQ7 and CG7 tubes, but they require external power.

 

[pctazhp]

  Same experience I had with the Ember, the more I rolled tubes even with the dual tube adapters, it just wasn't enough.  The Elise is turning out to be a very good  cost-benefit piece. Price for what is offered is very good, lots of possible tube combo's each one offers just a slight difference in sound, sound stage and definition.  I have not found any tubes to be over the top as far as "better" just because of the extreme price commanded for some tubes. Lots of inexpensive tubes to consider without breaking the bank. A while back I bought a pair of TS 5998 and while I like them very much, the pair of graphite plate 6080's that I bought for a quarter of the price sound just as good to me, a little different, but well worth the price paid.  I can not justify spending 70-80% of the price of the amp on tubes. Makes no sense to me at all. But to each his own, just wanted to let the folks that don't have and Elise and were reading this thread not to be scared off by the claims that to be happy with this amp you must spend large amounts of money on tubes.

CF:  I'm with you; There are many economical tubes that sound great on the Elise and it is an outstanding cost-benefit amp.
 
I don't really understand the desire to try every tube possible, but if someone enjoys that I certainly am not one to complain.
 
At the risk of a little hyperbole, every day when I turn on my Elise I feel a little like I'm hearing something wonderful for the first time, and have difficulty pulling myself away to live my non-headphone life))))

 

[Spork67]

 
At the risk of a little hyperbole, every day when I turn on my Elise I feel a little like I'm hearing something wonderful for the first time, and have difficulty pulling myself away to live my non-headphone life))))

 
This.
I have a strict "Don't turnElise on before work" rule, or I'd be late every day.

 

[Oskari]

Wonderful thing:


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFGg9b-riw0[/VIDEO]

 

[Oskari]

Armband:


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-_GyqLnBsY[/VIDEO]

 

[DecentLevi]

   
This.
I have a strict "Don't turnElise on before work" rule, or I'd be late every day.

I turn mine on only when I have long listening sessions available in order to properly enjoy its' greatness, similar to requiring longer timeframes when making music / sound effects

 

[DecentLevi]

CASE STUDY​

GEC 6AS7G (brown curved base, NOS) vs. unbranded / GEC or "MWT" labeled 6AS7G (brown straight base)​

 ​

* All of these 6AS7G's are in fact A1834, including the ones with the genuine GEC label
 

 ​

 ​

 

(actual photos taken by me today)
 

1. GEC 6AS7G pair (curved base, not burned in):
      Vivid, organic, perfect tonality, huge soundstage, hard hitting with exquisite layering / imaging ability. Occasional trace hint of 'grainyness' / harshness.
2. branded + MWT labeled 6AS7G pair (straight base, burned in)
      Extremely vivid, organic, perfect tonality, huge soundstage, hard hitting with phenomenal layering / imaging ability. And now with increased 'energy' and a velvety lushness. Dynamics are equal. Overall sound at least 20% more organic / lifelike, and seems slightly smoother vs. a borderling solid-state like sound of the NOS GECs. Subtle amount of added lushness / vividness and the smallest of smallest addition of a 'laid back' signature seems to loose an extremely nuance amount of instrument separation compared with the above.

 
These both have absolutely 100% internal construction, the only physical difference being the shape of the base. In all likelyhood, the 'white label' ones were in fact rebrands manufactured in the same factory. However those white label (straight base) ones are my current favorite, I'm unable to conclude on a "favorite". Being the 'white label' version appears to be burned in, the difference may have nothing at all to do with base shapes, but rather burn-in amount. 
 
Conclusion: If you're ever lucky enough to chance upon a 'white label' or MWT labeled 6AS7G or A1834, run towards it like a marathon, because these are indeed the real thing, and in my case, very truly and literally sounding even somewhat better than the real thing.
 
(both actually being the 'real thing', just in different states of burn-in and base shapes)
 

​

 ​

​

 
 

BONUS​

GEC 6AS7G vs. GEC 6080​

 
Construction: the internal construction is identical to the its' larger brethren, minus differences both above and below the plates and of course the ST vs. straight-form shape.
 
Sound: coming from a fresh listen with the 'white label' (authentic rebranded) 6AS7 / A1834 my initial reaction was that this is "worse". However after a moment of letting my ears adjust, it became clear the main difference is the 6080's is more clarity in the place of lushness and 'warmth'. With these you get a sound that keeps much of the lifelike sound of the above, yet a somewhat smaller, more tightly articulated 'package'. The 6080's sound much more 'solid-state' like, leaner, tighter and moderately brighter, while retaining much (but not all) of the the timbre / tone of the GEC 6AS7G's that's nearly untouched by any other tube. It has much more 'air' than its' larger bretheren, yet soundstage / imaging are both reduced. Dynamics on the 6080's are superior to both the 6AS7G's. These make it a great choice for electronic music, pop and possibly jazz, however a touch too lean on the bass for some songs.
 
PS- You may be asking why the *#$% do you have more than one pair of ST-shaped GEC's?... silly story really. At first I was only able to find one on eBay, then was able to snag another separately (though unmatched, these turned out to perform better so far). Then about a week later after posting on another Head-Fi thread requesting info. on unrelated tubes, by total random chance I happened to get a reply from another Head-Fi'er who had a genuine mint-condition NOS pair of the GEC's, which he sold me for a steal-deal along with five other sets of power tubes. My plan is to keep the original as a backup.
 
 
* tested on the Elise (original version) with Mimby DAC and modded HD-650's with both rock, blues and electro .FLAC songs

 

[hypnos1]

 

CASE STUDY​

GEC 6AS7G (brown curved base, NOS) vs. unbranded / GEC or "MWT" labeled 6AS7G (brown straight base)​

 ​

* All of these 6AS7G's are in fact A1834, including the ones with the genuine GEC label
 

 ​

 ​

 

(actual photos taken by me today)
 

1. GEC 6AS7G pair (curved base, not burned in):
      Vivid, organic, perfect tonality, huge soundstage, hard hitting with exquisite layering / imaging ability. Occasional trace hint of 'grainyness' / harshness.
2. branded + MWT labeled 6AS7G pair (straight base, burned in)
      Extremely vivid, organic, perfect tonality, huge soundstage, hard hitting with phenomenal layering / imaging ability. And now with increased 'energy' and a velvety lushness. Dynamics are equal. Overall sound at least 20% more organic / lifelike, and seems slightly smoother vs. a borderling solid-state like sound of the NOS GECs. Subtle amount of added lushness / vividness and the smallest of smallest addition of a 'laid back' signature seems to loose an extremely nuance amount of instrument separation compared with the above.

 
These both have absolutely 100% internal construction, the only physical difference being the shape of the base. In all likelyhood, the 'white label' ones were in fact rebrands manufactured in the same factory. However those white label (straight base) ones are my current favorite, I'm unable to conclude on a "favorite". Being the 'white label' version appears to be burned in, the difference may have nothing at all to do with base shapes, but rather burn-in amount. 
 
Conclusion: If you're ever lucky enough to chance upon a 'white label' or MWT labeled 6AS7G or A1834, run towards it like a marathon, because these are indeed the real thing, and in my case, very truly and literally sounding even somewhat better than the real thing.
 
(both actually being the 'real thing', just in different states of burn-in and base shapes)
 

​

 ​

​

 
 

BONUS​

GEC 6AS7G vs. GEC 6080​

 
Construction: the internal construction is identical to the its' larger brethren, minus differences both above and below the plates and of course the ST vs. straight-form shape.
 
Sound: coming from a fresh listen with the 'white label' (authentic rebranded) 6AS7 / A1834 my initial reaction was that this is "worse". However after a moment of letting my ears adjust, it became clear the main difference is the 6080's is more clarity in the place of lushness and 'warmth'. With these you get a sound that keeps much of the lifelike sound of the above, yet a somewhat smaller, more tightly articulated 'package'. The 6080's sound much more 'solid-state' like, leaner, tighter and moderately brighter, while retaining much (but not all) of the the timbre / tone of the GEC 6AS7G's that's nearly untouched by any other tube. It has much more 'air' than its' larger bretheren, yet soundstage / imaging are both reduced. Dynamics on the 6080's are superior to both the 6AS7G's. These make it a great choice for electronic music, pop and possibly jazz, however a touch too lean on the bass for some songs.
 
PS- You may be asking why the *#$% do you have more than one pair of ST-shaped GEC's?... silly story really. At first I was only able to find one on eBay, then was able to snag another separately (though unmatched, these turned out to perform better so far). Then about a week later after posting on another Head-Fi thread requesting info. on unrelated tubes, by total random chance I happened to get a reply from another Head-Fi'er who had a genuine mint-condition NOS pair of the GEC's, which he sold me for a steal-deal along with four other sets of power tubes. My plan is to keep the original as a backup.
 
 
* tested on the Elise (original version) with Mimby DAC and modded HD-650's with both rock, blues and electro .FLAC songs

 
Very nice collection indeed DL - well done!...you are extremely fortunate - you haven't bin doin' a Bonnie and Clyde job at all, have you lol?!!!

...
 
A couple of points...
 
1. You did in fact mention difference in burn-in time, which will of course alter the situation a good bit further down the road, but perceived wisdom does indeed conclude that any difference (if at all!) between curved and straight-bottom base tubes is extremely minute, and probably no more than exists between tubes even from the same production line - hence no real justification for vendors to slap on any kind of silly premium. And are the 6080s NOS? If so, these will also of course be needing more burn-in yet to gain a more accurate picture.
 
2. You didn't say which drivers were used...these too, needless to say, will alter the situation somewhat.
 
You must indeed have spent a good many hours putting these tubes through their paces, but I fear you still have a long way to go before a definitive result can be attained from such an enviably large collection of "Holy Grail" tubes LOL...patience, mon ami!!

...look forward to your findings a good bit further down the road...

 

[Spork67]

I figure my EL3N's have had a good run and will be well on their way to being burned in by now.
The 2 I got first and used as drivers should have 100+ hours on them.
Removed four of the "six-pack" from the power sockets and popped the RCA 6080's in to try with EL3N drivers.
Meh. Not a bad sound - but not as good as Elise sounds with some other combos.
Waited a few minutes for the 6080's to cool down and replaced them with my TS 5998 as powers with my 100+ hour EL3N's.
Yep. Certainly a very, very nice combination.

 

[mordy]

Hi Spork67,
 
As they say, YMMV - in my system (using Elise as a preamp and listening through speakers) I prefer the RCA 6080 tubes. But my main point is that for $5-7/tube you can get very good sound.
 
Now, for those of you who want to follow Dl's advice and buy the MWT (Marconi Wire Telegraph?) tubes, there are two NOS for sale from a Canadian seller:
 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VALVE-M-W-T-CV2523-A1834-A-1834-6AS7G-Tube-1-Piece-NEW-/322311485184?hash=item4b0b42f700:g:CxoAAOSwn7JYE7ND
 
and

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VALVE-M-W-T-A1834-A-1834-CV2523-6AS7G-Tube-1-Piece-NEW-/322311492898?hash=item4b0b431522:g:is4AAOSwo4pYE6o2
 
Don't worry about the seller's 0 feedback - he started a new seller account for tubes, but has been selling antique cameras for a while:
 
In case you have concern about my low feedback, note this is my new ebay account.  I am selling camera, lens, watch on E-bay for more than 10 years. See my other E-bay account by clicking on below links. You can send message to me if you need verification.
http://www.ebay.ca/usr/leica-ur
 
http://www.ebay.ca/usr/leica-historica
 
As for me, I am not yet ready to spend $450 for a pair.

 

[hypnos1]

  Hi Spork67,
 
As they say, YMMV - in my system (using Elise as a preamp and listening through speakers) I prefer the RCA 6080 tubes. But my main point is that for $5-7/tube you can get very good sound.
 
Now, for those of you who want to follow Dl's advice and buy the MWT (Marconi Wire Telegraph?) tubes, there are two NOS for sale from a Canadian seller:
 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VALVE-M-W-T-CV2523-A1834-A-1834-6AS7G-Tube-1-Piece-NEW-/322311485184?hash=item4b0b42f700:g:CxoAAOSwn7JYE7ND
 
and

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VALVE-M-W-T-A1834-A-1834-CV2523-6AS7G-Tube-1-Piece-NEW-/322311492898?hash=item4b0b431522:g:is4AAOSwo4pYE6o2
 
Don't worry about the seller's 0 feedback - he started a new seller account for tubes, but has been selling antique cameras for a while:
 
In case you have concern about my low feedback, note this is my new ebay account.  I am selling camera, lens, watch on E-bay for more than 10 years. See my other E-bay account by clicking on below links. You can send message to me if you need verification.
http://www.ebay.ca/usr/leica-ur
 
http://www.ebay.ca/usr/leica-historica
 
As for me, I am not yet ready to spend $450 for a pair.

 
Don't blame you mordy...much as I love my own lol!!

...just keep your (patient!) eagle eyes open for the 'sleepers/non-GEC labelled' bargains - but just how patient are you, mon ami!

- perhaps luckier then?!!

...CHEERS!...

 

[connieflyer]

I have found a somewhat cheaper way to enjoy the refinement and clarity of the GEC tube. I printed out the above photo of the GEC  placed it in front of my Joy bringers and  graphite plates and look at them and think how good they sound like this.  Try it , very cheap, and doesn't take much mind control to tell these are the best!