[Riverstalker]

These tube rings look amazing, need a pack of those. Different color though

Hd 600 arrived today. Sounds wonderful but definately not a neutral can. So many people say it's neutral ?!?
I keep it, music just flows and the soundstage is enough for me.
And they are damn good for electronic music which suprised me a lot. Good bass, the 650 were to blurry there.

Thanks for the help guys !!!

 

[Riverstalker]

First song was chasing pirates from norah jones by the way. Thought Elise or HD 600 were broken. There is a crazy sound in the left channel right at the start of the song LOL
Gave me a good shock but it's in the tune. Give it a try ...

 

[hypnos1]

 
According to @pctazhp's experience, Mullard 6080 is nothing similar to GEC 6AS7G, thus I go for the Mullard 6080WA since some review suggests 6080WA has the similar sound to GEC 6AS7G. I might purchase another pair of GEC 6AS7G next month in UK to compare it with Mullard 6080WA in order to confirm whether they are similar or  not, find a reliable tube supplier, will be more expensive but will save me some energy to worry whether it is authentic or not if buying them from China.
 
But your 6080 is something else, it has YM and YK after the 6080, what does YM and YK stand for? Is it a Mullard's 6080? 
 
Again, Elise thread is the best thread ever I've come across on head-fi. You guys are just so helpful.  Very satisfied. 

 

 
Hi lwei...it is indeed @pctazhp's GEC 6080 that approaches the GEC 6AS7G variants, not the Mullards lol...

...
 
As for paying the sort of money generally asked for the "Holy Grail" CV2523 or A1834, I'm afraid I can't really say they warrant such (now) crazy prices. Those Osrams you showed a while back look 100% genuine to me...can't see how anyone would be able to reproduce/imitate them to such an incredible standard LOL!!

...
 
Good luck whatever you choose to do...and glad you like our company!...CHEERS!...

 

[HOWIE13]

@DecentLevi
 
 'I can even hear individual voices in a choir of 5 which I've never heard before.'
 
Hi DL
 
I never realised you liked choral music. I would love to know which recording this refers to as I would like to obtain it to see if I can make out the individual 5 vocal parts in my own system before considering buying more rings.
 
Cheers and thanks.

 

[UntilThen]

First song was chasing pirates from norah jones by the way. Thought Elise or HD 600 were broken. There is a crazy sound in the left channel right at the start of the song LOL
Gave me a good shock but it's in the tune. Give it a try ...

Love this song. Was playing it a few days ago when I was just going through Norah's songs.
 

 

[geetarman49]

  Hi G49,
 
Excellent! You pass the test with flying colors!
 
These 6SN7 tubes were made for WWII artillery pieces and made extremely rugged with five support rods and triple micas.
 

 
These tubes were used in the aiming device of Howitzer cannons.
 

 
One source states that it was a Telefunken tube made under license, but the same page also says under license from RCA. The actual tube was made by Standard Radio Fabrik (SRF) - Standard Radio Manufacturing.
 
http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/shop_Tubes_amp_Accessoires_Tubes_Odd_Ball/6SN7WGTA_Telefunken_made_in_Sweden_as_33S30B_1556
 
A sister tube, the 6SL7 or 33S29B, recently sold for $1200 for a pair.
 

 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-Rarest-Tube-In-Own-Box-33S29B-5691-6SL7GT-ECC35-Standard-Radio-Of-Sweden-/231993440919?hash=item3603e2fa97%3Ag%3AnmAAAOSwZ1BXcacn&nma=true&si=uMziWYluOLpPtJbk0lQoRwjYJ6I%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
 
Just in case you have a case in your basement - could pay off the mortgage......

at those prices, i doubt i'd ever get the chance to touch them, much less listen to them.
have you ever listened to them? in the elise?
 
while price is relative, are they really worth (from a sonic perspective) that much more than gec 6as7g?
i think i will stay in the relatively sane world of chatham 6as7g & save the money for something like the sony mdr-z1r

 

[pctazhp]

   
The Sound Changes
 

1. Improved realism
      What used to sound like a reproduction of a choir or of drums, now sounds like real people singing around me and real drums. 
2. Improved imagining / instrument separation
      Of all, this may be their strength. Impeccable imaging and separation. Absolutely no doubt I now hear layers I've never noticed before. I can even hear individual voices in a choir of 5 which I've never heard before.
3. Improved transient response
      The initial attack 'slam' of the ADSR hits stronger and really sounds pleasing / just right.
4. Increased 'air'
      Improved sense of spaciousness around the high frequencies

 
It went from an excellent recording to a spectacular recording... not even like a recording anymore but as if it's now 'real life'! Superb realism, approaching an electrostat sound. It's like it transforms tubes from being something that was meant for other purposes but sounded great, to something that was destined to be for audio. 
 
 

DL:  I read with interest your report on the rings. Tube rings have been around for decades, but for whatever reason don't seem to have gained widespread acceptance, particular among headphone users - at least from what I can tell. Decades ago they were promoted as primarily reducing the microphonic effect of close proximity of tube electronics to loud, powerful speakers.
 
I envy you achieving the degree of improvement you report from such a simple change. I will admit that I'm sure my 71-year old ears aren't what they used to be, but I don't recall achieving such a dramatic change through something so simple or perhaps even through something much more involved. Although with my EL3N/GEC 6080WA combo I may have come close.
 
I have often heard people talk about "layers" but I don't think I have ever been able to identify that in my own listening experience. Essentially, I primarily experience differences in tonal balance, good integration from bottom to top of FR, realistic soundstage (depth and width) and improved precision of imagining. I've never been particularly able to hear "attack" although I can relate to "slam". And except during solo passages, I don't remember ever being able to identify single voices in a choir regardless of size.
 
The concept of "Improved sense of spaciousness around the high frequencies" is totally alien to my experience, although with good imaging and low noise level I believe I can hear better "air" between instruments - a descriptive term that I think was first developed by Harry Pearson in The Absolute Sound.
 
I'm tempted to try the rings because they are so cheap. But I'm concerned about their effect on the lifespan of tubes possibly from uneven thermal conditions. So I'll await further information.
 
I don't put much stock in the seller's claim that no rings have ever been returned. Given the low price, I assume someone who didn't find them beneficial wouldn't bother returning them. And his warning to beware of knock offs is a pretty common hype phrase used for many different products.
 
I did a very quick Google search on tube rings, and didn't find much. However, I did find some positive comments but also found a few comments reporting a mainly negative effect from rings such as "deadening" the sound. 
 
As for the concept, I'm having trouble imagining how the rings could significantly reduce internal tube vibrations (assuming such a thing exists) but I guess it is possible.
 
Also, one final question. When you say "electrostatic" are you referring to headphones or speakers? 
 
Anyway, I'll stay tuned )))

 

[pctazhp]

  Hi G49,
 
Excellent! You pass the test with flying colors!
 
These 6SN7 tubes were made for WWII artillery pieces and made extremely rugged with five support rods and triple micas.
 
 
These tubes were used in the aiming device of Howitzer cannons.
 

 
 

Are you sure they weren't actually designed specifically for Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture ???

 

[Riverstalker]

Anybody satisfied with a headphone for rock music ? Rock always sounds terrible no matter what HP I try. Maybe it's AKG territory ?

 

[mordy]

Hi G49 and pct,
 
Chances are very slim that I will ever hear these Swedish tubes. The prices are out of reach and personally I doubt that these tubes are so superior to other great tubes that it justifies the price. They are very rare, and that may account for the price.
 
A couple of years ago I saw a pair of Western Electric 300B tubes sell for $13,000 plus shipping.
 
Which reminds me of a true story that the head of dentistry at a hospital told me in the 70's.
 
A dentist colleague approached him and asked him: A certain well known actor called my office to have a couple of wisdom teeth pulled. What should I charge him?
Said the head of the department: You have to charge him a very high price; otherwise he is going to think that you aren't a good dentist.
 
So he was charged $4000/tooth which in those days was an astronomical price.
 
Afterwards he sent a thank you note to the dentist, thanking him for the extractions, and adding: "Thank you for being so reasonable".
 
The head dentist added: Where do these people come from? The moon?

 

[pctazhp]

  Hi G49 and pct,
 
Chances are very slim that I will ever hear these Swedish tubes. The prices are out of reach and personally I doubt that these tubes are so superior to other great tubes that it justifies the price. They are very rare, and that may account for the price.
 
A couple of years ago I saw a pair of Western Electric 300B tubes sell for $13,000 plus shipping.
 
Which reminds me of a true story that the head of dentistry at a hospital told me in the 70's.
 
A dentist colleague approached him and asked him: A certain well known actor called my office to have a couple of wisdom teeth pulled. What should I charge him?
Said the head of the department: You have to charge him a very high price; otherwise he is going to think that you aren't a good dentist.
 
So he was charged $4000/tooth which in those days was an astronomical price.
 
Afterwards he sent a thank you note to the dentist, thanking him for the extractions, and adding: "Thank you for being so reasonable".
 
The head dentist added: Where do these people come from? The moon?

In my next life I'm going to try to come from the moon 

 

[louisxiawei]

Hey gents,
 
Is Elise supposed to be zero background noise?
 
Now the "dang" sound appears every time but will disappear after 20 minutes. I guess one of the Mullard 6080WA is microphonic tube and got some thermal expand sound when it gets warmed up.
 
However, I still can hear marginal microphonic "hum" sound at the background without signal in after few hours switch on the Elise. The sound is quite metal-ring feeling, but gets quiter and quiter when the playing time goes. The "hum" noise only comes from my right channel of my headphone. 
 
The "hum" sound is very very tiny, I need to be calm down enough to be able to hear it, but it does exist. I don't recall any kind of these noise when I used a pair of bad stock 6AS7G tube, although channel is unbalanced, but I didn't hear the noise.
 
Should I keep running for a few days or contact the seller for replacement? Thanks.

 

[hypnos1]

  DL:  I read with interest your report on the rings. Tube rings have been around for decades, but for whatever reason don't seem to have gained widespread acceptance, particular among headphone users - at least from what I can tell. Decades ago they were promoted as primarily reducing the microphonic effect of close proximity of tube electronics to loud, powerful speakers.
 
I envy you achieving the degree of improvement you report from such a simple change. I will admit that I'm sure my 71-year old ears aren't what they used to be, but I don't recall achieving such a dramatic change through something so simple or perhaps even through something much more involved. Although with my EL3N/GEC 6080WA combo I may have come close.
 
I have often heard people talk about "layers" but I don't think I have ever been able to identify that in my own listening experience. Essentially, I primarily experience differences in tonal balance, good integration from bottom to top of FR, realistic soundstage (depth and width) and improved precision of imagining. I've never been particularly able to hear "attack" although I can relate to "slam". And except during solo passages, I don't remember ever being able to identify single voices in a choir regardless of size.
 
The concept of "Improved sense of spaciousness around the high frequencies" is totally alien to my experience, although with good imaging and low noise level I believe I can hear better "air" between instruments - a descriptive term that I think was first developed by Harry Pearson in The Absolute Sound.
 
I'm tempted to try the rings because they are so cheap. But I'm concerned about their effect on the lifespan of tubes possibly from uneven thermal conditions. So I'll await further information.
 
I don't put much stock in the seller's claim that no rings have ever been returned. Given the low price, I assume someone who didn't find them beneficial wouldn't bother returning them. And his warning to beware of knock offs is a pretty common hype phrase used for many different products.
 
I did a very quick Google search on tube rings, and didn't find much. However, I did find some positive comments but also found a few comments reporting a mainly negative effect from rings such as "deadening" the sound. 
 
As for the concept, I'm having trouble imagining how the rings could significantly reduce internal tube vibrations (assuming such a thing exists) but I guess it is possible.
 
Also, one final question. When you say "electrostatic" are you referring to headphones or speakers? 
 
Anyway, I'll stay tuned )))

 
Hi pct.
 
I can relate to all you say about "tube dampers". My own comments are admittedly not based upon personal trials, but upon certain elements of questioning logic...ie.
 
1. This has been a hotly debated/controversial topic for many years now...if there were indeed benefits from such a simple, relatively cheap "tweak", surely this would have taken the hi-fi World by storm a long while ago - why hasn't it, lol?!...
 
2. Many of those who have noticed improvements admit that this is probably very system dependent...not to mention on the actual condition/quality of the tubes themselves. And, in addition, that the changes are usually subtle ones...not dramatic ones (which makes much more sense to me personally, lol!

).
 
These two aspects alone I have not yet seen answered adequately, and so the debate will continue for a VERY long time yet, I should imagine.
 
Fortunately, this is an exercise that shouldn't have to cost too much and is easy to implement, so all power to those who wish to give it a try - and who knows, may add towards a better concensus of opinion. And even if merely placebo effect, if it brings greater enjoyment, I certainly will not dismiss it out of hand. But please don't expect too dramatic an improvement...that surely is not very realistic LOL!...

...

 

[pctazhp]

  Hey gents,
 
Is Elise supposed to be zero background noise?
 
Now the "dang" sound appears every time but will disappear after 20 minutes. I guess one of the Mullard 6080WA is microphonic tube and got some thermal expand sound when it gets warmed up.
 
However, I still can hear marginal microphonic "hum" sound at the background without signal in after few hours switch on the Elise. The sound is quite metal-ring feeling, but gets quiter and quiter when the playing time goes. The "hum" noise only comes from my right channel of my headphone. 
 
The "hum" sound is very very tiny, I need to be calm down enough to be able to hear it, but it does exist. I don't recall any kind of these noise when I used a pair of bad stock 6AS7G tube, although channel is unbalanced, but I didn't hear the noise.
 
Should I keep running for a few days or contact the seller for replacement? Thanks.

I don't know if it is possible for any amp to be absolute "zero background noise", but I never hear background noise. Right this minute I recently switched my EL3N drivers for Sylvania 6SN7 WGT drivers (still using GEC 6080WAs for power), and I just turned the volume all the way up and couldn't hear anything.
 
Have you tried switching the Mullards to see if the hum moves to the left side?

 

[Oskari]

First song was chasing pirates from norah jones by the way. Thought Elise or HD 600 were broken. There is a crazy sound in the left channel right at the start of the song LOL
Gave me a good shock but it's in the tune. Give it a try ...

The Fall is a great album, different but great.


[VIDEO]https://youtu.be/2IrWoKOLjQI[/VIDEO]


I don't know what you're talking about regarding crazy sound. :confused_face_2: