[Lord Raven]

When your tubes and subs both arrive at the same time

 

[pctazhp]

When your tubes and subs both arrive at the same time

 

Just don't get the two confused ))))

 

[UntilThen]

When your tubes and subs both arrive at the same time

 

I thought tubes and subwoofer. So what tubes are they? 

 

[UntilThen]

  Suddenly thinking about Elise maintenance
 
Quick and newbie questions :
 
Since I had that unexpected bad tubes, I might counter that situation in the future again:
 

1. Will bad power tube or driver tube cause damage on tube-amp or headphone in Elise’s case?
2. What if leaving the bad tube on the amp for a while without notice, will it cause a serious problem to the amp with the time goes on? 
3. Does Elise have any protection like safe fuse preventing the bad tube causing problem to Elise amp itself?
4. What shall I be careful in the future?

 
Edit:
 
I just found some answers from some experts:
http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/forum/guitar/acapella-28/31526258-did-i-just-damaged-my-brand-new-tube-amp-need-help

It's ok , don't be too paranoid. It's never happened here before. There are safety circuitry build in Elise but nevertheless I won't leave the amp unattended to burn in overnight. 
 
When swapping tubes, make sure they have cool down considerably before doing so. Also don't operate cold and hot tubes together. 

 

[UntilThen]

 
Because the RCA 6080s are generally pretty cheap I might give them a try, but honestly the thought of opening up one more box of tubes right now is not very appealing to me. Listening remains very appealing. 

 

In that case I'll play you a song. 
 

 

[DecentLevi]

Though I don't ascribe to evolution - a little humor
 

 
 

 
 

 

[UntilThen]

Good to see you again DL and a little humor is in order.

 

[DecentLevi]

Thanks, well, you really gave me the impression I've been relinquished from online Elise land. Not even trying to refresh the whole jig, basically I was purely expressing my perception of various tube setups, and didn't mean any affront whatsoever about the EL3Ns. Everyone has their own sound preferences, and disliking something is not meant as an offense.
 
Well I finished 60 hours on my feet this week, and here's the first of several huge Head-Fi updates I've got up my sleeve:
 

1. New custom add-on I've come up with for an HD-650 mod for increased punchyness
    
   more here

 
EDIT: Also another main universally accepted decree of this hobby is to not make claims about the sound of something unless you've tried it

 

[UntilThen]

I won't mod my hd650 further or it will become the Orpheus.

 

[UntilThen]

Make no mistake it's not what you said about EL3N per se but the fact you claimed 6xEL3N has high THD where else your Christmas tree is low THD. That defies logic. If any setup has distortion it will be the Christmas tree setup where adapters are pile upon adapters.

 

[DecentLevi]

Edited my above post

 

[HOWIE13]

  @louisxiawei  you're making me laugh but Lukasz indeed is very patient and accommodating. Helpful definitely.
 
As for my Mullard 6080, I've no idea what YM, YK means. I take it as 'your mileage' 'your kinks'. 

 
My Mullards are similarly quiet and I believe made for the Military. Don't know much more about them, made in 1975 according to the box. Can't find much info about QDD code, except it's quite common. Sound great anyway.
 
 

 

[DecentLevi]

OK guys this week I've finally decided to give the tube dampers a chance. At only $10 a pack I thought why not try - and boy did it ever pay off!!! Here are my impressions of the effect these have on the sound with the Elise amp, after multiple A/B comparisons with various tube classes:
 
The Look

 
 
The Sound Changes
 

1. Improved realism
      What used to sound like a reproduction of a choir or of drums, now sounds like real people singing around me and real drums. 
2. Improved imagining / instrument separation
      Of all, this may be their strength. Impeccable imaging and separation. Absolutely no doubt I now hear layers I've never noticed before. I can even hear individual voices in a choir of 5 which I've never heard before.
3. Improved transient response
      The initial attack 'slam' of the ADSR hits stronger and really sounds pleasing / just right.
4. Increased 'air'
      Improved sense of spaciousness around the high frequencies

 
It went from an excellent recording to a spectacular recording... not even like a recording anymore but as if it's now 'real life'! Superb realism, approaching an electrostat sound. It's like it transforms tubes from being something that was meant for other purposes but sounded great, to something that was destined to be for audio. 
 
Absolutely surreal!
Everything sounds SO right now!
 
It sounds just like I've always wanted my hi-fi rig to sound, and I'm now seriously questioning whether I need to upgrade my amp in the future. And folks, this is no "new toy syndrome" either, but a result of a multi-day careful A/B comparison between with / without these bands, using multiple tube setups. I initially tried this on the 6BL7 / dual 6J5 with 6SN7 (Christmas Tree) setup and was left speechless. I also tried the larger size with my GE 6AS7 GA tubes and they went from sounding 'OK' to 'very good'. Then I tried it with my 6080 tubes and 6SN7 (photo above), and it was exactly the improvement I expected...
 
That is to say, the above four sonic improvements are universal for all tube classes (with my testing). With any tubes you can generally expect improved realism, imaging / separation, dynamics and air.
 
The concept
Tube dampers work by reducing vibrations from the tube. Apparently tubes are prone to imperfections in sound reproduction due to these vibrations - something I've never noticed until after the improvement from these.
 
A few tips
 

1. Between comparing with / without the dampers, I recommend to turn off the music and remove the tube. But when applying the dampers with music playing, the sound changes were brought about so gradually I had a harder time detecting the difference. Also you don't want to risk damaging the pins / sockets with the force applied of inserting them.
2. When applying the dampers, I recommend to hold the tube mostly by the lower part of the glass and roll the bands down, rather than taking a chance at breaking the tube apart by holding it from the base while exerting force on the glass.
3. Go all or nothing. I recommend using a damper on both driver + power tubes. Using them on only half didn't seem to make much of a difference.

 
@HOWIE13, sorry to say you were either missing something or you got a bad brand, because these are the real deal! These are making such an improvement in my overall music listening experience that I've been finding myself looking forward to listening to the Elise every day! They are from eBay seller Sandyphoto, which offers risk-free returns, and said there have been 0 returns on their dampers after around 10 years of selling them. Also their product description states to be wary of knock-offs, so I recommend trying theirs first. Also don't worry about these melting, because they are tested to withstand up to 400 F.
 
Where to buy
 
Seller Sandyphoto on eBay
 
This is the one for 6SN7 / 6BL7 size (medium)
This is the one for 6AS7 / 6080 size (large). though they seem quite tight so I'll also be testing the larger sizes
This is size XL
 
They have 18 sizes / types including the pricier DuoDAMP type with two materials, which they said to have an even 10% better improvement on the sound

 
 
I may never consider any tube complete again without a damper. A must have for every serious tube connoisseur.
 
I'll also be ordering some for my EL3N's and will report back on which size fits them best.
 
PS - If you don't see your tube size, ask the seller first which size is best for your tube

 

[UntilThen]

1.  

 
EDIT: Also another main universally accepted decree of this hobby is to not make claims about the sound of something unless you've tried it

If you think anyone here is in a hurry to verify your Christmas Tree claim, you had better get Santa on it. 

 

[Spork67]

  OK guys this week I've finally decided to give the tube dampers a chance. At only $10 a pack I thought why not try - and boy did it ever pay off!!! Here are my impressions of the effect these have on the sound with the Elise amp, after multiple A/B comparisons with various tube classes:
 
The Look

 
 
The Sound Changes
 

1. Improved realism
      What used to sound like a reproduction of a choir or of drums, now sounds like real people singing around me and real drums. 
2. Improved imagining / instrument separation
      Of all, this may be their strength. Impeccable imaging and separation. Absolutely no doubt I now hear layers I've never noticed before. I can even hear individual voices in a choir of 5 which I've never heard before.
3. Improved transient response
      The initial attack 'slam' of the ADSR hits stronger and really sounds pleasing / just right.
4. Increased 'air'
      Improved sense of spaciousness around the high frequencies

 
It went from an excellent recording to a spectacular recording... not even like a recording anymore but as if it's now 'real life'! Superb realism, approaching an electrostat sound. It's like it transforms tubes from being something that was meant for other purposes but sounded great, to something that was destined to be for audio. 
 
Absolutely surreal!
Everything sounds SO right now!
 
It sounds just like I've always wanted my hi-fi rig to sound, and I'm now seriously questioning whether I need to upgrade my amp in the future. And folks, this is no "new toy syndrome" either, but a result of a multi-day careful A/B comparison between with / without these bands, using multiple tube setups. I initially tried this on the 6BL7 / dual 6J5 with 6SN7 (Christmas Tree) setup and was left speechless. I also tried the larger size with my GE 6AS7 GA tubes and they went from sounding 'OK' to 'very good'. Then I tried it with my 6080 tubes and 6SN7 (photo above), and it was exactly the improvement I expected...
 
That is to say, the above four sonic improvements are universal for all tube classes (with my testing). With any tubes you can generally expect improved realism, imaging / separation, dynamics and air.
 
The concept
Tube dampers work by reducing vibrations from the tube. Apparently tubes are prone to imperfections in sound reproduction due to these vibrations - something I've never noticed until after the improvement from these.
 
A few tips
 

1. Between comparing with / without the dampers, I recommend to turn off the music and remove the tube. But when applying the dampers with music playing, the sound changes were brought about so gradually I had a harder time detecting the difference. Also you don't want to risk damaging the pins / sockets with the force applied of inserting them.
2. When applying the dampers, I recommend to hold the tube mostly by the lower part of the glass and roll the bands down, rather than taking a chance at breaking the tube apart by holding it from the base while exerting force on the glass.
3. Go all or nothing. I recommend using a damper on both driver + power tubes. Using them on only half didn't seem to make much of a difference.

 
@HOWIE13, sorry to say you were either missing something or you got a bad brand, because these are the real deal! These are making such an improvement in my overall music listening experience that I've been finding myself looking forward to listening to the Elise every day! They are from eBay seller Sandyphoto, which offers risk-free returns, and said there have been 0 returns on their dampers after around 10 years of selling them. Also their product description states to be wary of knock-offs, so I recommend trying theirs first. Also don't worry about these melting, because they are tested to withstand up to 400 F.
 
Where to buy
 
Seller Sandyphoto on eBay
 
This is the one for 6SN7 / 6BL7 size (medium)
This is the one for 6AS7 / 6080 size (large). though they seem quite tight so I'll also be testing the larger sizes
This is size XL
 
They have 18 sizes / types including the pricier DuoDAMP type with two materials, which they said to have an even 10% better improvement on the sound

 
 
I may never consider any tube complete again without a damper. A must have for every serious tube connoisseur.
 
I'll also be ordering some for my EL3N's and will report back on which size fits them best.
 
PS - If you don't see your tube size, ask the seller first which size is best for your tube

 
Hey DL.
I don't wish to seem argumentative - it was a post of yours that first brought me to Elise, but your post raises some questions for me.
 
Have you conducted any blind tests? "...and it was exactly the improvement I expected..." Expectation bias perhaps?
 
Also: 
"The concept
Tube dampers work by reducing vibrations from the tube. Apparently tubes are prone to imperfections in sound reproduction due to these vibrations - something I've never noticed until after the improvement from these."  but then " But when applying the dampers with music playing, the sound changes were brought about so gradually I had a harder time detecting the difference."
 
So how would the dampers gradually reduce vibration when music is playing but do it instantly and dramatically without music playing?