[Masonjar]

I'm amazed at what I've been finding in my local library system. The Cuyahoga County library probaby has about 15 or so branches, and each one has their own cd collection, you can go to a website and search all the libraries, and have them deliver a disc you want to your local branch.

It's been great so far.

An old Bloomstedt Bruckner 7th on Denon was a real treat. I remember reading a review or two of it back in the 80's but had never heard it. Easily one of the best..

Also got the Karajan 8th (Berlin 70's version).. I can't believe I hadn't heard it after all these years of being a Bruckner fan. I have to say that it is definately among the best 8ths I've heard, though there are many more I still need to check out. I also borrowed the Maazel, but was not blown away by it.

They've got tons of Mahler too

-jar

 

[Tyson]

Masonjar,
Libraries rock for classical. I've borrowed (and copied) a ton of stuff over the past few years. I also have about 3000 original CD's in my collection that I'm ripping to a few HD's and making backups of. Once that's done I'm donating all 3000 CD's to my library as a way to say "thank you" for enriching my own music experiences, and also to let others enjoy some really first rate classical recordings.

 

[JayG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyson Masonjar, Libraries rock for classical. I've borrowed (and copied) a ton of stuff over the past few years. I also have about 3000 original CD's in my collection that I'm ripping to a few HD's and making backups of. Once that's done I'm donating all 3000 CD's to my library as a way to say "thank you" for enriching my own music experiences, and also to let others enjoy some really first rate classical recordings.

Now that's quite admirable. I could never do it. My CD collection is my most prized possession. I avoid copying/downloading music for my own reasons, but even if I did copy a bunch of music from the library, I don't think I could bring myself to donate my CDs.

-Jay

 

[Tyson]

For me, having everything on HD is so much better than messing with physical CD's that I'm really not going to miss them. The only reason I'm even making copies of them before donating is so I can have a physical backup in case all 3 of my HD's fail at the same time :O

 

[scottder]

Listening to music on a PC is quite a different experience, you can easily browse around. Compare and contrast, and thanks to lossless formats, not lose ANYTHING from the original CD.

Scott

 

[DarkAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottder Listening to music on a PC is quite a different experience, you can easily browse around. Compare and contrast, and thanks to lossless formats, not lose ANYTHING from the original CD. Scott

I also like the concept of server based music collection, if only because hard to physically manage/store thousands of Cds and remember/find a certain Cd.
This will be a few years down the road for me however.........

Bohm/VPO/DG Galleria 8th 1977
Bohm/VPO/DG Galleria 7th 1977
Two recent additions to collection, the VPO 7th is a great performance and I think someone mentioned this recently here. Goes right to near top of the list of any 7th I have heard with very fine analog sound, this should be obtained by any Bruckner fan while still cheap used at Amazon.

The VPO 8th is good but not great and Bohm has done better versions, especially his spectacular 1974 Koln version contained in 2CD Great Conductors of 20th Century edition which towers over this version and almost any other version available.

 

[JayG]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I love PC based music storage, and all of my CDs are on my HDDs. But I still wouldn't want to lose my original CDs. I like to have them as physical backups, and I revisit the liner notes from time to time. It's basically the same reason I wouldn't buy my music from online stores, even if they offered lossless.

-Jay

 

[mbhaub]

Just out of curiosity, does it bother anyone else that Karl Bohm was such a raving Nazi? Of course he wasn't alone: Karajan, Knappertsbusch and Krauss, too. And all were superb Bruckner conductors. I have to say that I have virtually no recordings by Bohm for that reason, whatever the qualities. Kna recordings are usually too early to really get excited about the sound, so I don't mind overlooking them. I do have some Karajan. But Bohm was just too happy to work with Goebbels and co. and it bothers me a lot. Or am I being too reactionary. (But I've been this way for 30+ years.)

 

[JayG]

The age old question. Where does the artist stop and the art begin? Personally , I think it is important and interesting to learn and understand the circumstances under which art is created, but I don't necessarily think that art and the artist are inseperable. Wagner was a horrible, hateful human being, but I wouldn't consider for a moment eliminating his music from my collection because of that. Similarly, I cannot condemn recordings by Bohm, Karajan, or Knappertsbusch solely based on their politics. By no means do I sympathize with or condone their support of the Nazi party, but I judge a performance first and foremost by the result rather than the culture in which it was made.

It would be different if the purchase of recordings by these individuals somehow promoted or supported their ideology, but that's not the case. Speaking in general terms, sometimes the most depraved minds make the greatest art.

-Jay

 

[lwd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayG The age old question. Where does the artist stop and the art begin? Personally , I think it is important and interesting to learn and understand the circumstances under which art is created, but I don't necessarily think that art and the artist are inseperable. Wagner was a horrible, hateful human being, but I wouldn't consider for a moment eliminating his music from my collection because of that. Similarly, I cannot condemn recordings by Bohm, Karajan, or Knappertsbusch solely based on their politics. By no means do I sympathize with or condone their support of the Nazi party, but I judge a performance first and foremost by the result rather than the culture in which it was made. It would be different if the purchase of recordings by these individuals somehow promoted or supported their ideology, but that's not the case. Speaking in general terms, sometimes the most depraved minds make the greatest art. -Jay

I agree with JayG. If we excelude Bohm on this basis then we should also omit Wagner and Strauss ie most of the German Operatic repertoire. I don't really know the details of the politics of Bohm or Knappertsbusch (not a big fan of either), but I think evidence suggests Karajan joined the Nazi party as a neccessary career move, although that is still totally deplorable. You could also argue that Furtwangler was a collaborator. Very dark part of our history, let's just hope it's never repeated.

 

[Masonjar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lwd I agree with JayG. If we excelude Bohm on this basis then we should also omit Wagner and Strauss ie most of the German Operatic repertoire. I don't really know the details of the politics of Bohm or Knappertsbusch (not a big fan of either), but I think evidence suggests Karajan joined the Nazi party as a neccessary career move, although that is still totally deplorable. You could also argue that Furtwangler was a collaborator. Very dark part of our history, let's just hope it's never repeated.

Apparently there was a movement to rate people how how "Nazi" they were... either they were resistant, sympathetic, or member, and from what I remeber, you get rated either white/grey or black.. for instance, there is much debate over whether or not Carl Orff was truly a Nazi supporter and lied to be seen more favorably, or if he really was part of some resistance. I guess I've never let that taint my enjoyment of "Carmina Burana" or for that matter, any of Karajan's work. I don't have much Wagner in my collection, a few orchestral pieces.. I'm not much of an opera fan..

-jar

 

[DarkAngel]

Interesting to see some complete sets listing "names" for each 1-9 symphony:
1) saucy maid
2) symphony of pauses
3) wagner
4) romantic
5) tragic
6) philosophic
7) lyric
8) apocalyptic
9) unfinished

Anyone know how these names came about and were they approved by Bruckner or adopted after his death?

 

[SoundsGood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel Interesting to see some complete sets listing "names" for each 1-9 symphony: 1) saucy maid 2) symphony of pauses 3) wagner 4) romantic 5) tragic 6) philosophic 7) lyric 8) apocalyptic 9) unfinished Anyone know how these names came about and were they approved by Bruckner or adopted after his death?

As far as I'm aware, Bruckner only gave the Fourth Symphony an epithet, the "Romantic." He had also at one time wrote a program for the first movement, but later withdrew it. The label Romantic was intended to be a general term, not a specific one.

I don't know how some of the names came about, except for the Ninth, since it is unfinished. I would assume publishers and promoters put names to the symphonies to make them more "sellable" and interesting to those involved. I think the music can more than speak on its own without having to think of some label, so I wish they wouldn't attach such silly names. Philosophic, lyric?? Please.

 

[lwd]

I think 3 has been know as 'wagner' for sometime as the original version contains some Wagner quoatations. But the rest????!?

 

[kevinsinnott]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhaub Just out of curiosity, does it bother anyone else that Karl Bohm was such a raving Nazi? Of course he wasn't alone: Karajan, Knappertsbusch and Krauss, too. And all were superb Bruckner conductors. I have to say that I have virtually no recordings by Bohm for that reason, whatever the qualities. Kna recordings are usually too early to really get excited about the sound, so I don't mind overlooking them. I do have some Karajan. But Bohm was just too happy to work with Goebbels and co. and it bothers me a lot. Or am I being too reactionary. (But I've been this way for 30+ years.)

Obviously this is a personal choice for you to make. I know too often how hard it is to put aside an artist's stated beliefs when they are so counter to one's own. However, I try to err on acceptance. After all, it isn't just a Bohm performance - there are lots of musicians playing on it. It's Bruckner's music. It is all-too-difficult to know for sure how a man like Bohm really thought. I don't know too much about him, but is it possible that he was in an impossible position? I know people who boycotted Karajan and I recently read that Karajan's wife was Jewish and he was acting largely to protect her, seemingly a noble act. I've been in too many situations where the truth was very different from the public appearance.

I do refuse to buy art works when they directly preach immoral behavior. That gives me quite a number of works to avoid as it is.