Fair Ipod shuffle review

[yyoo]

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Originally Posted by Imyourzero Aside from build quality, what makes you draw that comparison? If you mean that the iPod is overpriced and bought as a status symbol, then yeah I guess it is the Mercedes or BMW of DAPs. However, with other players such as the Karma having better SQ, longer battery life, FLAC/OGG support, an EQ that doesn't suck, more features, and are less expensive @ the same capacity as the iPod...why is it that you consider all of these other DAPs to be so inferior? Is it because they are not quite as intuitive to use, or because they don't have iTunes?

iTunes and usability are a big part of it, and build quality as well. Maybe the best analogy can be made with respect to BMW. BMW lags behind many of the Japanese makes in their options and gizmos (the BMW's comparatively primitive nav system for example), but BMWs do what they're supposed to do well. They offer a fun and immersive driving experience. BMW has somehow managed to keep drivability and handling at the center of their product while adding on luxury over the years.

Likewise, that's what Apple has offered. They offer the luxury of design and a cachet with their label, but at the core of their products is usability. There is a focus and a philosophy to the iPod as there is a focus and a philosophy to BMWs.

Of course, many despise BMWs because of the image of the Yuppy snob the label projects. And some despise Apple products for the same reason. But those who love driving usually love driving BMWs (I race Miatas with the SCCA, but I love driving BMWs), and those who love music usually love using the iPod, because, like a BMW, it gets you from point A to point B on the musical highway in a sublimely easy, enjoyable, and even exciting fashion.

 

[Jahn]

i guess the biggest difference is, making the BMW analogy and that the shuffle would be like BMW's Mini, that Apple cant keep em in the stores - the SECOND they hit the stores they are gone. One of the kids I know at home works at an Apple store and he says shuffles never hit the shelves - kids buy them in droves so they haven't ever been in stock. The Mini was well received but it was going against the powerhouse VW bug at the time - the Shuffle entered a market like a...VW Bug. Sneering at the Hyundai Excels and such already in the market but without enough punch to make a foothold. Apple really should have made more before release - these things are selling like hotcakes.

Now of course a Honda Accord is going to trounce a VW Bug - but the consumer falls in love with the Bug, not the Accord. I see very few of the populace falling in love with any players out there aside from Apple products, on merit or not.


And it doesnt help that people who bring that shuffle home actually hook it up to itunes in a minute, load up their songs, and the tunes sound good. The hook is set! The shuffle is here to stay - as for me I'm still happy I got the wife an Ipod Mini instead, but you have to admire the shuffle for quickly dominating its market.

 

[kugino]

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Originally Posted by PodMan Believe it or not, many headfi members here actually use the iPod not because it is hip, but because it is actually a good product. There is actually substance beneath all that style. Look in that huge thread where headfi members show off pictures of their audio gear. Yes, you will see many ipods, even some that are connected to portable amps through their line-outs. Are all of these people mislead by Apple marketing? I actually think the iPod looks kinda plain, but I use it because it suits my needs the best, not based on how it looks or how many people in public is using it. I actually prefer Sony styling in terms of looks but until they can get rid of that annoying background hiss (hopefully when their digital amp reach their HD players) and support unicode in their SonicStage software, they are not going to get me to switch. I can see how the shuffle is lacking. But that's fine, I am just not going to buy one. Soundwise, other people have already posted the shuffle is good enough for what it is.

yeah, i think what's missing in this discussion, or whatever you want to call it, is that the ipod does, for a lot of people here, sound very good. i think lindrone said that the ipod's line out is extremely good (forgive me if that's a misinterpretation or wrong)...while that's only one person's opinion, the way some of you talk about the ipod is that it's all marketing and no sound quality. you are right that a lot of it is in fact apple's marketing and cool factor. but the sound isn't too shabby. AL files through my sik din and sr-71 sound pretty damn good...and don't most people say that source is the most important part of the chain?

you might not like the ipod for its mainstream appeal, because you love to hate the favorite, etc...and i can understand that. but to say that the ipod is only about coolness is a bit of an overstatement. its particular sound may not interest you, but that doesn't mean it's bad sound quality. i personally don't like sennheisers b/c they're not my cup o' tea in terms of sound, but i don't trash them as crap just because i don't like the sound.

 

[rextrade]

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Originally Posted by crimsonadam And if this was a forum dedicated to marketing and advertising we could all get giddy with apple-related excitement. But the number one game in this forum is quality reproduction of sound, so anytime a company does something which makes it so that our access to high quality is diminished, we have reason to be concerned.

No, the number one game on this forum should be enjoying music, of which a BIG part is sound quality, but, for portable use, ease of use is also important. Plus, I would guess that most people buying an ipod are getting a step up in sound quality from what they used to listen to, even with the crappy white headphones. Have you heard a mass market portable cd player lately? They sound like crap.

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If a company's product is only successful, do to a marketing strategy and not due to the inherent qualities of the product. That is a bad thing for those who favor quality over hip-ness (which is probably 99% of the people that are part of the head-fi community).

Why can't the ipod be both? I chose the ipod over the Karma and iRiver. I think the ipod is the best player out there (for me at least), but I did give serious thoughts to buying other players. Others may need FM radio, RCA connectors etc., so the ipod, for them, wouldn't be the best player.

Quote:

If the general public thinks that the Ipod is the best that can be made, then the competors will spend their money on marketing their Ipod-ish like product, rather than on innovation, simply because there isn't a large enough knowledgable public to demand a better product. How much of the public is aware of VORBIS or FLAC or even the concept of Lossless. Wouldn't we (as audiophiles) be better off if they did.

But you forget, Apple CREATED the market for these players. I'm not saying Apple was the first, or even second or third to enter the market, but if it wasn't for ipod, I doubt most people wouldn't consider buying a 20 or 40 GB player to haul around their entire music collection. Now there is every incentive for other companies to try to outdo the ipod to get a part of the market Apple created. It wouldn't be a stretch for another company to seize on the ipod's weakness (no gapless, bad eq or whatever) and turn that into a marketing advantage. Competitors won't (or shouldn't) waste there time making an ipod-like product. Why would they do that? The ipod already exists. Potential ipod competitors will now see the size of the DAP market, and create new products to distinguish themselves from the ipod.

And don't forget, Apple did create its own lossless, and supports AIFF and WAV files, so the public is aware of lossless.

 

[yeeyy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rextrade Have you heard a mass market portable cd player lately? They sound like crap.

Have you heard other MP3 players in the market lately? Try take a listen and do some comparison.

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Originally Posted by rextrade Why can't the ipod be both? I chose the ipod over the Karma and iRiver. I think the ipod is the best player out there (for me at least), but I did give serious thoughts to buying other players. Others may need FM radio, RCA connectors etc., so the ipod, for them, wouldn't be the best player.

For me, in term of sound quality, no, iPod indeed is NOT the best player.

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Originally Posted by rextrade But you forget, Apple CREATED the market for these players.

Agree.

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Originally Posted by rextrade And don't forget, Apple did create its own lossless, and supports AIFF and WAV files, so the public is aware of lossless.

Pardon for my stupidity, may I know which lossless format do they created?

 

[viator122]

It's called Apple Lossless

 

[rextrade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by yeeyy Have you heard other MP3 players in the market lately? Try take a listen and do some comparison. For me, in term of sound quality, no, iPod indeed is NOT the best player.

Yeah, I think the quality of cheaper portable CD players has really gone down hill over the past few years (and these are the types of CD players most people who are now spending $400 on a DAP were getting.

I acutally like a lot of things about the Karma (but I still prefer the ipod's flat sound) If the Karma was at least 40 GB and had the ipod's ease of use and music management, I would consider getting it.

Anyway, back to the subject, I'm hoping to find an ipod shuffle at the NYC Apple store for my girlfriend. Someone else already said something similar, but my gf is the perfect person for this thing. I'm anxious to hear how it sounds.

 

[lifebot]

there is a one problem with the shuffle.

shuffle works as a thumbdrive, and therfore you should be able to download songs on it without having to load iTunes, other wise they should have subtracted the built in usb and made the size a little smaller.