Face to face with James，Anything about FiiO

[karloil]

Regarding the firmware of K17, I understand that there are many complaints and demands from everyone. Here, I hope to make things clearer. It may not sound good, but I can guarantee that this is the original intention and fact of our design of this machine.

Firstly, K17 is still in the K series, which is a model in our desktop headphone amplifier series. Therefore, in terms of positioning, it is a desktop decoding headphone amplifier.

In order to enhance the User Experience, K17 uses a high-resolution color LCD display, so it cannot be driven by ordinary MCU. From the perspective of supply and cost, we chose X2000 and ran it on the LINUX system.

Of course, if X2000 is only used as a display and interaction SOC, it is very competent and can indeed support simple local playback and some Streaming Media functions, such as AIRPLAY. Therefore, from a competitive perspective, the Product Manager believes that the more functions a product has, the better it will sell. This is indeed reasonable.

However, due to the performance limitations of the LINUX system and the X2000 SOC itself, some experiences are indeed limited, and OTA cannot solve them no matter what.

The good news is that we will continue to optimize X2000 because many products will use this SOC in the future. Some of the feedback problems can be solved, but it is still a DAC/AMP, not a player. If we compare K17 with K9PRO, it is indeed more expensive, but these increased prices actually correspond to ADI's hardware DSP chip.

In fact, even if we close all the additional features of K17, such as local playback and AIPLAY, K17 still has a higher cost performance than K9PRO. Therefore, essentially, we did not charge extra for these features.


Writing up to this point, to be honest, I'm afraid people will criticize me because they think that since FIIO's K17 has this feature, it should be improved for sales. However, compared to K9PRO or competing products at the same price point, K17 has indeed surpassed many in terms of functionality. Maybe this feature is not perfect enough, but isn't it also a kind of progress?

In addition, as a consumer and an engineer, I have been engaged in software and hardware development. Decades ago and now, things have changed a lot, and I think the HIFI field is the same. Perhaps in the end, we will all face a situation where even the world's most powerful technology companies like Tesla and Apple still have many shortcomings or bugs in their cars or phones after delivery to users, and they will continue to upgrade through OTA.

In fact, I am currently driving a Chinese XPENG smart electric vehicle. I am also an internal tester and have an average of 2 to 3 OTA upgrades per month. On the one hand, it fixes bugs, and on the other hand, it adds some new features.

Therefore, the times are changing. In the past, what a product looked like when it left the factory was still the same when it broke down. Nowadays, products seem to have vitality. They may still be young when they leave the factory, but they will continue to learn and grow stronger.

I believe our past performance can also testify, especially for products based on intelligent operating systems, which are continuously improving and adding features through OTA.

Another point is that there are too many product functions now. In fact, it is impossible to exhaust all scenarios in the laboratory, especially for some problems that can be solved by software, such as special character recognition for WIFI passwords.

I'm not sure which approach is more responsible to users, but we will try our best to solve the problem before it leaves the factory, but we won't delay the product launch for too long in pursuit of perfection. Otherwise, the bugs may not be fixed yet, and the product may be outdated, so there is no need for mass production at all.

Reacting to this - and please don't get me wrong - but isn't wireles connection (with special character in password) quite basic to be overlooked? I mean, this is my ONLY device that fails to connect. I hope you address this in the very near future.

The failure for BT discoverable - I hope you address this in the very near future as well.

I understad the VU meter as per your explanation - users will of course have that initial impression that the VU meter will work as it should (fast response).

K17 freezing - I hope you REALLY address this in the very near future.


I'm not picking a fight or anything - I'm just an avid FiiO user who just got very tired of firmware issues. Just being honest here and I hope you get my point (our point as some will share the same sentiments). For me - I just want the bugs fixed/addressed ASAP as I paid money for it to work properly the 1st time.

 

[Moon5123]

Regarding the firmware of K17, I understand that there are many complaints and demands from everyone. Here, I hope to make things clearer. It may not sound good, but I can guarantee that this is the original intention and fact of our design of this machine.

Firstly, K17 is still in the K series, which is a model in our desktop headphone amplifier series. Therefore, in terms of positioning, it is a desktop decoding headphone amplifier.

In order to enhance the User Experience, K17 uses a high-resolution color LCD display, so it cannot be driven by ordinary MCU. From the perspective of supply and cost, we chose X2000 and ran it on the LINUX system.

Of course, if X2000 is only used as a display and interaction SOC, it is very competent and can indeed support simple local playback and some Streaming Media functions, such as AIRPLAY. Therefore, from a competitive perspective, the Product Manager believes that the more functions a product has, the better it will sell. This is indeed reasonable.

However, due to the performance limitations of the LINUX system and the X2000 SOC itself, some experiences are indeed limited, and OTA cannot solve them no matter what.

The good news is that we will continue to optimize X2000 because many products will use this SOC in the future. Some of the feedback problems can be solved, but it is still a DAC/AMP, not a player. If we compare K17 with K9PRO, it is indeed more expensive, but these increased prices actually correspond to ADI's hardware DSP chip.

In fact, even if we close all the additional features of K17, such as local playback and AIPLAY, K17 still has a higher cost performance than K9PRO. Therefore, essentially, we did not charge extra for these features.


Writing up to this point, to be honest, I'm afraid people will criticize me because they think that since FIIO's K17 has this feature, it should be improved for sales. However, compared to K9PRO or competing products at the same price point, K17 has indeed surpassed many in terms of functionality. Maybe this feature is not perfect enough, but isn't it also a kind of progress?

In addition, as a consumer and an engineer, I have been engaged in software and hardware development. Decades ago and now, things have changed a lot, and I think the HIFI field is the same. Perhaps in the end, we will all face a situation where even the world's most powerful technology companies like Tesla and Apple still have many shortcomings or bugs in their cars or phones after delivery to users, and they will continue to upgrade through OTA.

In fact, I am currently driving a Chinese XPENG smart electric vehicle. I am also an internal tester and have an average of 2 to 3 OTA upgrades per month. On the one hand, it fixes bugs, and on the other hand, it adds some new features.

Therefore, the times are changing. In the past, what a product looked like when it left the factory was still the same when it broke down. Nowadays, products seem to have vitality. They may still be young when they leave the factory, but they will continue to learn and grow stronger.

I believe our past performance can also testify, especially for products based on intelligent operating systems, which are continuously improving and adding features through OTA.

Another point is that there are too many product functions now. In fact, it is impossible to exhaust all scenarios in the laboratory, especially for some problems that can be solved by software, such as special character recognition for WIFI passwords.

I'm not sure which approach is more responsible to users, but we will try our best to solve the problem before it leaves the factory, but we won't delay the product launch for too long in pursuit of perfection. Otherwise, the bugs may not be fixed yet, and the product may be outdated, so there is no need for mass production at all.

It's good there is a progress.
But Fiio shouldn't have announced features that you knew will not work out of the box.
To be honest K17 is state of art still without those features but still should have declared these limitations earlier.

In Linux most of these features would have been manually coded that's a difficult job to do if you are not a software company, huge salute to that.

Do you think in future devices should have Andriod system rather than barebone Linux which will help with standardization across the devices and easier implementation? Will that increase the cost of development? Like what been done on S15 seems like there are less issue on that platform.

 

[JamesFiiO]

I've had the chance to review a few FiiO products so far, including the FT1 Pro and the JM21, and I've really enjoyed both of them. Here are the things I think FiiO is doing right, and some areas where there's room for improvement:

In terms of design, I think FiiO is moving in a very good direction. Your recent designs feel playful yet cohesive, striking a nice balance between fun and maturity. In the DAP and dongle DAC categories, I feel you are very well positioned. I also really appreciate the more sustainable approach you're taking with features like replaceable batteries, please continue with that; it's a huge positive.

On the desktop side, however, I feel there's a gap in the $250–$550 range, especially for mid-fi users. Maybe consider introducing some desktop DACs without integrated amps, aimed at users who already have separate headphone amplifiers and some all in one desktop dac amp units in this price range. Your flagship end of the lineup for example k17 is looking veru solid.

In portable products like DAPs, FiiO is doing very well, the JM21 is excellent, and the upcoming M21 looks very promising too. Your future dongle DAC lineup also seems strong, but it would be interesting to see FiiO experiment with something like a tube-powered dongle DAC to add a different flavor to the market.

When it comes to headphones, the FT1 and FT1 Pro are steps in the right direction. I would love to see FiiO explore a budget-friendly closed-back headphone under $100, which could attract a lot of new users into the brand.

The main area where I feel FiiO still has room to grow is the IEM lineup. Your flagship models are impressive, but there's a noticeable gap in the $100–$500 range. Expanding this segment, and especially focusing on fine-tuning the sound signatures could really strengthen FiiO’s overall position in the market. Maybe add some hibrids like DD + BA and you can also experiment with tribrids including the new micro planars.

These are all the things I feel FiiO is doing right, along with some areas where I think there’s room for improvement.
Sorry for the long message, just wanted to share my thoughts fully because I really appreciate what FiiO is doing!

Basically, I completely agree with your opinion. Here are some reports.

The independent decoder has been developed and is currently preparing for mass production. As you can see, there is an R2R with a huge VU table and a bold buffer decoder.

The independent pure Class A headphone amplifier has completed the ID design and is currently in the planning stage. It may be launched by the end of the year.

3. Desktop headphone amplifiers will have K13R2R and K15 to fill the price gap.

USB DONGLE will also have more interesting models, including tubes and R2R.

5. More competitively priced closed headphones and open flat-panel earbuds are both on the way.

6. The IEM market is very troublesome. Nowadays, a large number of new brands have emerged in China. To be honest, due to the existence of solution companies and the popularity of 3D printing and CNC machining technologies, the threshold for doing IEM has become very low. Coupled with the limitations of product technology (space, etc.), I think now IEM is more of a marketing and appearance gimmick.

 

[JamesFiiO]

It's good there is a progress.
But Fiio shouldn't have announced features that you knew will not work out of the box.
To be honest K17 is state of art still without those features but still should have declared these limitations earlier.

In Linux most of these features would have been manually coded that's a difficult job to do if you are not a software company, huge salute to that.

Do you think in future devices should have Andriod system rather than barebone Linux which will help with standardization across the devices and easier implementation? Will that increase the cost of development?

I agree with you that we need to be more conservative in product promotion. Also, to be honest, due to health reasons, I rarely go to the company now, and even if I do, I won't participate in specific product development and marketing promotion. In fact, we are now more like a company composed of several small companies, and I only play the role of a consultant.

Therefore, I will try my best to persuade everyone, but I also hope that everyone can understand that FeiAo has been very restrained in product promotion, and everyone always feels that even if I have this function, although it is not perfect, I always feel like I am at a disadvantage if I don't say it out loud.

I hope everyone can understand that after engineers have spent a lot of time, effort, sweat, and overtime, they still hope to provide it for everyone to use.

In addition, the Android system usually requires stronger SOC, so your suggestion is good, but a bit unrealistic. Sorry for being a bit direct.

 

[JamesFiiO]

Reacting to this - and please don't get me wrong - but isn't wireles connection (with special character in password) quite basic to be overlooked? I mean, this is my ONLY device that fails to connect. I hope you address this in the very near future.

The failure for BT discoverable - I hope you address this in the very near future as well.

I understad the VU meter as per your explanation - users will of course have that initial impression that the VU meter will work as it should (fast response).

K17 freezing - I hope you REALLY address this in the very near future.


I'm not picking a fight or anything - I'm just an avid FiiO user who just got very tired of firmware issues. Just being honest here and I hope you get my point (our point as some will share the same sentiments). For me - I just want the bugs fixed/addressed ASAP as I paid money for it to work properly the 1st time.

Sorry, I may not have had much time to understand every detail, but I know the engineers are aware of the problem and working hard to solve it. Also, as a user and a senior engineer, I can honestly tell you that some ordinary users think it's easy to solve, but it's not. I hope you can be tolerant.

 

[evvv777]

We already have iOS app to control the EQ on some models , and more will be supported in the coming soon.

Oh awesome. I have the ka17 l, which is awesome, just wish it had a companion app rather then the web browser tool.

 

[JamesFiiO]

Great to see that we have a thread such as this, a couple of things @JamesFiiO
1. Could you please add gapless playback function and sort by album artist function to K17 when playing local files from a USB stick?
2. Please work on your software/firmware so that we the end user are not BETA testers anymore especially on expensive products such as FiiO K17 and FiiO S15 streamer, it is in the interests of all your loyal customers that have helped make FiiO the success that it is. This software/firmware situation is really hurting your reputation as a company which is a shame because the hardware is generally really good.

S15 will have a big OTA in the coming soon, but for the K17, it is an DAC/AMP with limited local music playback, so it maynot easy to add the future you need , it is related to the a lots ot techinical detail

 

[JamesFiiO]

Oh awesome. I have the ka17 l, which is awesome, just wish it had a companion app rather then the web browser tool.

for usb dongel thing is different, cause we don't have MFI so it is impossible to control KA17 on your iOS device.

 

[karloil]

Trying to reply in more detail:

In fact, even if we close all the additional features of K17, such as local playback and AIPLAY, K17 still has a higher cost performance than K9PRO. Therefore, essentially, we did not charge extra for these features.

Writing up to this point, to be honest, I'm afraid people will criticize me because they think that since FIIO's K17 has this feature, it should be improved for sales. However, compared to K9PRO or competing products at the same price point, K17 has indeed surpassed many in terms of functionality. Maybe this feature is not perfect enough, but isn't it also a kind of progress?

It's progress indeed. That's why I went back to purchasing FiiO again (before).

I'm not sure which approach is more responsible to users, but we will try our best to solve the problem before it leaves the factory, but we won't delay the product launch for too long in pursuit of perfection. Otherwise, the bugs may not be fixed yet, and the product may be outdated, so there is no need for mass production at all.

Kinda sad to see this that FiiO is willing to do this. As a customer - I wouldn't want to purchase a product with half or close to complete features. As a consumer, I want to get the product as a whole right? I paid full price for it. It should be working fine out of the box.

But Fiio shouldn't have announced features that you knew will not work out of the box.

Exactly.

Sorry, I may not have had much time to understand every detail, but I know the engineers are aware of the problem and working hard to solve it. Also, as a user and a senior engineer, I can honestly tell you that some ordinary users think it's easy to solve, but it's not. I hope you can be tolerant.

Yes, I understand that the solutions may be complex. But FiiO has a habit of just solving it later on instead of it working perfectly out of the box.




In parting - I thank you @JamesFiiO for this opportunity to air out my frustration and I hope (I believe you do) push FiiO to do better in the firmware side. I for one felt that I'm being heard with my concerns - thank you again for this and I really do hope the firmware gets fixed. Once it's fixed, you'll get +1 customer back (again).

 

[JamesFiiO]

Trying to reply in more detail:



It's progress indeed. That's why I went back to purchasing FiiO again (before).



Kinda sad to see this that FiiO is willing to do this. As a customer - I wouldn't want to purchase a product with half or close to complete features. As a consumer, I want to get the product as a whole right? I paid full price for it. It should be working fine out of the box.



Exactly.



Yes, I understand that the solutions may be complex. But FiiO has a habbit of just solving it later on instead of it working perfectly out of the box.




In parting - I thank you @JamesFiiO for this opportunity to air out my frustration and I hope (I believe you do) push FiiO to do better in the firmware side. I for one felt that I'm being heard with my concerns - thank you again for this and I really do hope the firmware gets fixed. Once it's fixed, you'll get +1 customer back (again).

There is something that needs to be explained to everyone. I am communicating with everyone based on my limited knowledge and understanding of the situation.

Therefore, my reply cannot be taken as the company's commitment or official reply. Otherwise, this thread will lose its meaning of existence.

Moreover, usually it needs to be 100% correct, and a reply may take several days because I need to find everyone to understand the details and communicate clearly together.

However, I can guarantee that I am an honest and frank communicator.

 

[JamesFiiO]

In fact, I don't think anyone needs a very bureaucratic reply in this thread.

 

[evvv777]

for usb dongel thing is different, cause we don't have MFI so it is impossible to control KA17 on your iOS device.

How does Qudelix do it with their 5k? That thing works awesome. Seems like the tech is available but I’m not an engineer…

 

[SushiiFi]

Basically, I completely agree with your opinion. Here are some reports.

The independent decoder has been developed and is currently preparing for mass production. As you can see, there is an R2R with a huge VU table and a bold buffer decoder.

The independent pure Class A headphone amplifier has completed the ID design and is currently in the planning stage. It may be launched by the end of the year.

3. Desktop headphone amplifiers will have K13R2R and K15 to fill the price gap.

USB DONGLE will also have more interesting models, including tubes and R2R.

5. More competitively priced closed headphones and open flat-panel earbuds are both on the way.

6. The IEM market is very troublesome. Nowadays, a large number of new brands have emerged in China. To be honest, due to the existence of solution companies and the popularity of 3D printing and CNC machining technologies, the threshold for doing IEM has become very low. Coupled with the limitations of product technology (space, etc.), I think now IEM is more of a marketing and appearance gimmick.

Thanks for the reply, upcoming products seems very interesting. All the best . Yeah, the competition in the iem market has grown exponentially. I am excited specially excited for the tube dongle dac.

 

[AlexUA]

looking forward to the new r2r devices with a more powerful amplifier.

 

[Charai]

I saw fiio is raising prices in USA because of the Tariffs and end to De Minimis Shipping. Will that also change the prices in other parts of the world?