[RHMMMM]

I don't understand why people upgrade the power cables for their audio equipment. Out of all the upgrades, wouldn't this be the least worthwhile? Out of the miles and miles of power cable that runs to your house, why would changing the last 3 feet or so make any difference at all?

Wouldn't it be even better to just take the outlet plates off the wall, disconnect the power wires from the back of the outlet, open up your CD player and directly solder the wires coming out of the wall to the power input pads on the power supply?

I can see changing interconnects and speaker wire, but power cables? I don't get it. Do expensive power cables make any difference other than aesthetics and the right to claim "I spent $1k on that power cable"?

 

[null]

here here!

 

[RHMMMM]

LOL, sorry if I got on a rant, but I really actually wanna hear some replies to this.

 

[Wodgy]

There are two opposing viewpoints which will never be resolved.

On one hand, there are single-blind tests (and occasionally double-blind tests) showing that power cords don't make a difference, even expensive ones like the Nordost Valhallas.

On the other hand, the power cable believers are adamant that they do make a big difference in real-world listening, for reasons that are difficult to explain but readily apparent to them.

Then there's the occasional middle ground. Virtual Dynamics power cables, for instance, are made of garden hose filled with ferrous aquarium pebbles, with the conductors threaded through the middle. It's possible that the ferrous pebbles act as ferrites and filter out high frequency interference, giving the cables a genuine scientific explanation.

Basically, though, you have to trust your ears.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHMMMM I don't understand why people upgrade the power cables for their audio equipment.

Made absolutely no sense to me either . . . . until I did it on a trial basis. My system sounds noticeably better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHMMMM Out of the miles and miles of power cable that runs to your house, why would changing the last 3 feet or so make any difference at all?

This a common argument against power cord upgrades, but there are several sites that have explanations of why the last three feet does make a difference. I don't have the links, but do recall that one of the explanations had to do with filtering out RFI. In any event, I decided to let my ears have the final say over my desire for scientific proof or explanation. I now have a bigger smile on my face when I listen, although maybe it's a stupid smile.

 

[darkclouds]

It also depends on the particular component. I've noticed an improvement with my cdp and poweramp. I've also tried 3 different PC with Ray Samuels Stealth; and as much as I wanted to hear the difference, I couldn't detect a noticealbe change at all. Interestingly, at least for me, it was much easier for me to discern PC differences with my cdp and power amps than IC changes (as long as they're quality ICs).

 

[dd3mon]

Aftermarket power cords donn't make sense, but IMO it all comes down to the equipment. I've heard gear that power cords make almost no difference on, regardless of cost. I've also heard some gear that cheap power cords make a night and day difference. I don't try and understand the science of it, there are many things readily audible in audio that have no explanation.

Go out on a limb and buy a $60 Signal Cable Magic Power Cord and try it on your gear. Either a) you'll still be a skeptic because your gear doesn't respond to power changes well and you'll just return the cord or b) your gear happens to be power cord sensitive and you'll be converted and soon be broke after purchasing a full setup of VD Master PCs

. The Magic PC is a great entry level PC, it offers obvious benefits to gear that will react to power cords, and is cheap enough to experiment without fear (not to mention equaling or besting many other PCs far more expensive).

-dd3mon

 

[Ross]

It sounds crazy that power cables should make a difference, but like others, I have found that they do make a small but noticeable improvement. This was one area where I was very sceptical and refused to believe that the cables would make a difference; but as is so often the case, experience overturned my prejudices.

Why should power cables make a difference? I don't know. The RFI or filtering argument may be right, but it doesn't make much sense to me.

I have a different theory. That theory is that the power cables which run from the power station all the way to your power socket are actually quite good quality, usually low gauge solid core wire. Because power lines are run at high voltage and stepped down at a local transformer, there is effective filtering of the power going on at several levels, including at the transformer which is quite close to your house. However, when you plug in a cheap, stranded power cable, you are constricting that signal in much the same way that cheap interconnects detrimentally affect the signal from (say) a CD player. Using a good power cable does not improve the sound, but prevents the power from degrading further.

If this is right, it would imply that the best and most cost-effective power cords would not be the ultra-expensive ones, but ordinary solid core wire of the kind that is used to wire your house. And you know what? In my experience, that is exactly what turned out to be correct. I have tried a number of very expensive power cables, and the best ones turned out to be my home made cables, made from solid core 1mm home electrical wire. While this isn't exactlty proof, it does lend some support to my theory of why power cables can make a difference.

 

[nanahachi]

jeeeez, there are more threads asking "how could PCs possibly help!1!?!?1/! zOmg?" than there are threads evaluating the PCs themselves.

Upgraded Power Cords worth it???
Similar: Why do different interconnects make a difference?
impact of power cord for ss headamps?
etc etc etc...

I'm teasing.

I can understand your curiousity and skepticism. I wasn't any different, until some headfiers I know recommended that I try rolling my PCs, esp. since doing so had as dramatic changes as rolling ICs in their system.

Well, I now am sitting on quite a few PCs, and will have a brief roundup posted sometime next week. but the result can be summed up as follows:
changing PCs in MY system yields tangible and clear changes in sound.

I can't tell you how various recipes for PCs work or the physics behind why they work. they just do.

I feel that higher end systems, or systems that are more revealing in general, are relatively better at demonstrating the effects of changing components within the system.

I also believe that my rig is the sum of its parts and the synergy between them. PCs and ICs that work for others, don't necessarily work for me, and vice versa. But my rig has greatly benefitted from the cable rolling I've done in the past week, and I'm not giving up my new babies.

 

[Jon L]

Just go out and buy some Chris VH cords off Agon and see what they do for you. I've heard many, many cords in my lifetime, and these are bar none the best bang for the buck cords out there, able to compete with the best available on many levels.

I recommend the recipe 1 for your CDP and recipe 4 for you integrated amp. If you don't hear a clear improvement over stock 14 AWG molded cords, well...

 

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

I agree, the venhaus cords I have owned only had good effects on my system. I will say that some cords have had detrimental effects in my system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHMMMM Wouldn't it be even better to just take the outlet plates off the wall, disconnect the power wires from the back of the outlet, open up your CD player and directly solder the wires coming out of the wall to the power input pads on the power supply?

I beleive its against the law to do that. At the very least it voids your fire insurance heh.

Biggie.

 

[Old Pa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHMMMM LOL, sorry if I got on a rant, but I really actually wanna hear some replies to this.

I've kind of split these power supply mains improvements down the middle. If we can agree that as audio performance improves, the final improvements involve very little, subtle changes then it's the quality of these changes that are the measure. It's up to you where value ends and slavish extravagance begins. Myself, I isolated the 20A circuit that powers my #1 stereo, moving the lights and other things to another circuit. All the mechanical electrical connections were chemically cleaned and are snugged air tight. The plug that feeds the stereo in a cryoed hospital grade Hubbel with isolated ground. While the power amp feeds directly off one one plug, I have a JR designed basic filtered isolator for the preamp and all the sources. Components with removable cords have had the stock ones replaced with a model I found with heavy well isolated conductors and the plugs are soldered on before being cast over instead of the usual swaging. They cost about $50 each, less when you buy several. All the electronics are on a shot-filled Sanus isolated rack which is spike mounted to the poured concrete floor below it. The B&W800s are also spiked. This is the level for me where value was achieved and my sensibilities as to tight mechanical connections for the mains was achieved.

 

[Lilac_Wine]

I just switched power cords on my audio equipment. All of the cords were cheap and came with various electronics. I could hear no difference any of them.

I know the response will be, “You have to try expensive PCs to hear a difference” but with speaker cables you can hear a difference among cheap cables.

Interestingly, I have yet to find a correlation between price and sound quality with speaker cable. I am currently using Home Depot outdoor power extension cable with the plugs cut off and the bare wire attached to the posts. It replaced much more expensive Audioquest cable.

 

[RHMMMM]

Quote:

Interestingly, I have yet to find a correlation between price and sound quality with speaker cable. I am currently using Home Depot outdoor power extension cable with the plugs cut off and the bare wire attached to the posts. It replaced much more expensive Audioquest cable.

I've had the same experience with AudioQuest. I have the Slate bi-wire's going to my speakers right now, and before that I had some Monster Cable Z1's (single, not biwire) from my HT linking up the Accuphase and Electras. I figured that a lot of stuff could be better than the Monsters (everyone likes to bash Monster Cable), but I actually think my imaging got worse with the "upgrade" - it sounds like I lost some soundstage depth and some of the spot-on imaging I had with the Monster Z1's is now blurred with the AudioQuest Slate.

It's so hard to do A/B with cables - espeically speaker cables. I tried to A/B with the Slates with the Z1's, but it was hard to notice a difference anyways.

 

[Illah]

I personally don't see how power cables can help much. If all your stuff is piled behind your TV and there's lots of RF noise back there, then maybe it can help a LITTLE. Thing is A/B'ing is really a flawed method of testing. When one 'upgrades' their system it's easy to fool oneself.

When I was A/B'ing the Gilmore vs. Perreaux amps I heard worlds of difference at first, but when I found a more efficient means of testing, one that cut the downtime swithing from one amp to the other, the differences became very subtle. In my original tests it took me a good 30 seconds to swap out one amp to the next, but a revised method cut the switch down to like 1 second. As I would pop from one to the other the once huge difference in sound started to become pretty subtle as I didn't have time to think about what the amp 'should' sound like (i.e. detailed/forward Gilmore vs. warm/polite Perreaux).

Now that is with AMPS, a component that clearly affects the sound. A power cable? I'm pretty skeptical. Unless you go DIY and make one I can't justify paying all sorts of money for these things.

--Illah