Expandable PC setup: passive + amp or powered speakers?
Feb 4, 2018 at 10:06 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 22

Valend

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I have a Magni 3 and Modi 2 Multibit on the way, just to preface this. Sound Blaster Z on Win 10. Still not sure the best solution to connecting everything (even after reading this thread), whether I should run the speakers through the Schiit stack and connect the Modi to line out (losing SBZ's headphone audio processing in games), headphone out, or some other solution like dual amping/using optical.

I'm just looking for a 2.0 setup to replace my Klipsch Promedias preferably with the option of expanding to 4.0 (maybe 4.1) later. I figure if I don't run the speakers through the Schiit stack then adding rear speakers would be as simple as connecting them through rear out on the soundcard? But if I ran it through the Modi I'm thinking I'd need something like a 4 channel amp or receiver to achieve that?

Based on recent recommendations (and a $300 USD, maybe 400 budget) I've been looking at JBL LSR305, Alesis Elevate 6, Kanto yu4... or something more elaborate like KEF Q100 + SA-98E. It's quite a bit to digest and research. I'm toying with the idea of giving up on ever really expanding the setup past 2.0 (and just using headphones whenever I want positional audio in games), but thought I'd check to see what other solutions might be out there.
 
Feb 4, 2018 at 10:26 PM Post #2 of 22
SB-Z > (optical) Modi > Magni.
Connect JBL LSR305 to the RCA line-output on the Magni.

For any surround sound listening, use headphones.
As the SB-Z can send it's SBX Headphone surround sound thru it's optical output port.
 
Feb 4, 2018 at 10:36 PM Post #3 of 22
SB-Z > (optical) Modi > Magni.
Connect JBL LSR305 to the RCA line-output on the Magni.

For any surround sound listening, use headphones.
As the SB-Z can send it's SBX Headphone surround sound thru it's optical output port.

Doing it that way, would I be able to swap to speaker mode in the SBZ control panel to turn off headphone processing, or would it be stuck thinking I'm using headphones? I think that's the part I've been confused about.

The 305's do look very tempting, and they come in under budget...
 
Feb 8, 2018 at 1:00 PM Post #4 of 22
Doing it that way, would I be able to swap to speaker mode in the SBZ control panel to turn off headphone processing, or would it be stuck thinking I'm using headphones? I think that's the part I've been confused about.
The 305's do look very tempting, and they come in under budget...
Yes, with the SB-Z, you can swap between speaker mode and headphone mode, for the output thru the SB-Z's optical port.
 
Feb 8, 2018 at 10:53 PM Post #5 of 22
I have a Magni 3 and Modi 2 Multibit on the way, just to preface this. Sound Blaster Z on Win 10. Still not sure the best solution to connecting everything (even after reading this thread), whether I should run the speakers through the Schiit stack and connect the Modi to line out (losing SBZ's headphone audio processing in games), headphone out, or some other solution like dual amping/using optical.

Dual amping isn't a good thing. That's why if you use optical output from the soundcard to the DAC-HPamp or a DAC, you send out a preamplified signal to the amplifier for the speakers from either the DAC-HPamp or the HPamp. That's a good way to control powered monitors for example since each cabinet has its own amp built into it and each has its own gain knob. Alternately, you can use passive speakers with a dedicated power amp, ie, the amp doesn't have its own preamplifier stage.

Since you already have the Modi2 and Magni3 on the way the easier way to get 2.0 speakers integrated in there is to add powered monitors since all you'll have to do is hook them up to the Magni3's preamp output. Also, you can't "connect the Modi2 MB to line out" as it only takes digital inputs, then sends a line output signal to the Magni.

However, regarding the DSP, that would mean that when you switch over to speakers, you have to disable Headphone Virtual Surround. Using an integrated amp connected to the soundcard's analogue FL-FR jack is one option, but you have to take into consideration that:

1. This isn't as straightforward as taking off the headphones and lowering the HPamp volume as you'll likely have to select the output between SPDIF optical and analogue. That means you'd still go into the DSP suite anyway, on top of which, you might still have to disable virtual surround as some soundcards allow that through the FL-FR jacks in case you connect its analogue output to a headphone amp.

2. You'd have one extra box on the desk, whether its a small, low power or relatively high power output but small Class T or a huge Class A/B integrated amp.

Powered monitors are also designed for nearfield use, so they're really more suited for this application anyway.


I'm just looking for a 2.0 setup to replace my Klipsch Promedias preferably with the option of expanding to 4.0 (maybe 4.1) later. I figure if I don't run the speakers through the Schiit stack then adding rear speakers would be as simple as connecting them through rear out on the soundcard? But if I ran it through the Modi I'm thinking I'd need something like a 4 channel amp or receiver to achieve that?

This is where it gets tricky. You could run 4.0 via the FL-FR and RL-RR combo jacks, but then you'd have two amps. Or run a preamp with two power amps. All of which just adds more clutter and could potentially cost nearly as much or even more than if you just did it properly.

If your goal really is to have surround speakers and headphones, you can just save up and do the speakers later, and use an HT receiver. Just make sure the receiver can run Phantom Center on the two mains (or just get a Center channel), and make sure that there isn't any conflict between the soundcard drivers vs the graphics card or motherboard HDMI audio drivers.

Alternately, if the speakers aren't for reference music listening much less recording/mastering, why not just get a multimedia speaker set? They're smaller, and you won't need the midwoofers to be as large if you're not going to be very specific about imaging (ie, not having the sub reproduce a wider range to compensate and end up pulling the bass image to where it is) like how hard percussion hits and loud bass guitars can be easy localized if not enough of their sound is coming off the midwoofers set at a proper height. You'll run these completely off the soundcard without adding too much clutter (you also need just one power cable) and you just switch which output the soundcard will use.


Based on recent recommendations (and a $300 USD, maybe 400 budget) I've been looking at JBL LSR305, Alesis Elevate 6, Kanto yu4... or something more elaborate like KEF Q100 + SA-98E. It's quite a bit to digest and research. I'm toying with the idea of giving up on ever really expanding the setup past 2.0 (and just using headphones whenever I want positional audio in games), but thought I'd check to see what other solutions might be out there.

Controlling those will be problematic unlike having a single receiver or multimedia set with a volume control plus a separate sub gain (which, on the HT system, will be either on the active sub's amp or on the receiver itself - set the sub and later adjustments can be through the receiver).
 
Feb 15, 2018 at 6:56 PM Post #6 of 22
Also, you can't "connect the Modi2 MB to line out" as it only takes digital inputs, then sends a line output signal to the Magni.
Oh, I guess that was my mistake then, I was under the impression you could after reading some old threads on the topic. I'm not actually sure how you could after taking a closer look at the inputs, so maybe I misunderstood. Maybe they meant the Magni, and not using a DAC at all?

I do have a set of Promedia 2.1's but the whole idea was that I wanted to upgrade. At this point I've pretty much given up the idea of doing surround sound with speakers. With the JBL's, I thought the idea was to set them to the same volume with the knob in the back and just use software or the amp control knob to change the volume, but if that's not a good solution then I'll definitely look at something else.

Other than that, I finally got the Modi/Magni and set them up today. I used a 3.5mm to RCA converter to run my speakers through them. However, I do appear to lose all of Creative's audio processing when using optical. No changes in the SBZ control panel have any effect on sound. Based on other threads I'd read I was unsure if this would happen or not. I emailed Schiit and there's apparently no way around it, so for now I've just taken the Modi out of the equation and connected the Magni directly to headphone out on my soundcard. I can definitely notice a difference with/without the Modi, but much of my headphone use is gaming, so I kind of rather wanted to keep the audio processing.
 
Feb 15, 2018 at 8:55 PM Post #7 of 22
Oh, I guess that was my mistake then, I was under the impression you could after reading some old threads on the topic. I'm not actually sure how you could after taking a closer look at the inputs, so maybe I misunderstood. Maybe they meant the Magni, and not using a DAC at all?

I do have a set of Promedia 2.1's but the whole idea was that I wanted to upgrade. At this point I've pretty much given up the idea of doing surround sound with speakers. With the JBL's, I thought the idea was to set them to the same volume with the knob in the back and just use software or the amp control knob to change the volume, but if that's not a good solution then I'll definitely look at something else.

Other than that, I finally got the Modi/Magni and set them up today. I used a 3.5mm to RCA converter to run my speakers through them. However, I do appear to lose all of Creative's audio processing when using optical. No changes in the SBZ control panel have any effect on sound. Based on other threads I'd read I was unsure if this would happen or not. I emailed Schiit and there's apparently no way around it, so for now I've just taken the Modi out of the equation and connected the Magni directly to headphone out on my soundcard. I can definitely notice a difference with/without the Modi, but much of my headphone use is gaming, so I kind of rather wanted to keep the audio processing.
Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS, when you installed the SB-Z card?
The Modi was connected to the computer using optical, not USB?
Try posting your issue to a Creative Labs or Sound Blaster forum/thread.
 
Last edited:
Feb 16, 2018 at 1:09 AM Post #8 of 22
Did you disable the motherboard's on-board audio, in the BIOS, when you installed the SB-Z card?
Yep.
The Modi was connected to the computer using optical, on USB?
The Modi was connected to the soundcard through the optical out port on the sound blaster and then into the optical port on the Modi. Didn't use USB at all.
Try posting your issue to a Creative Labs or Sound Blaster forum/thread.
Yeah that might have to be my next step, but after talking to Schiit support it doesn't sound like there's an actual solution to being able to keep Creative's sound processing systems when you're outputting over optical.
 
Feb 16, 2018 at 2:09 AM Post #9 of 22
Yep.

The Modi was connected to the soundcard through the optical out port on the sound blaster and then into the optical port on the Modi. Didn't use USB at all.

Yeah that might have to be my next step, but after talking to Schiit support it doesn't sound like there's an actual solution to being able to keep Creative's sound processing systems when you're outputting over optical.
http://forums.creative.com/forumdisplay.php?f=6
 
Feb 16, 2018 at 8:26 PM Post #10 of 22
Oh, I guess that was my mistake then, I was under the impression you could after reading some old threads on the topic. I'm not actually sure how you could after taking a closer look at the inputs, so maybe I misunderstood. Maybe they meant the Magni, and not using a DAC at all?

Likely they meant Motherboard FL/FR line output to Magni2 then preamp output to powered speakers.

Alternately you can use the Modi2 to feed the signal to the Magni first.

You can use the Modi direct to speakers provided they have a single volume control in case you don't need to drive headphones.


I do have a set of Promedia 2.1's but the whole idea was that I wanted to upgrade. At this point I've pretty much given up the idea of doing surround sound with speakers. With the JBL's, I thought the idea was to set them to the same volume with the knob in the back and just use software or the amp control knob to change the volume, but if that's not a good solution then I'll definitely look at something else

You don't need an amp to control the JBLs since they already have an amp built into the cabinets. What you need is a preamp output from a headphone amp or DAC-HPamp-Preamp one box unit. The same potentiometer that controls the headphoone volume will also control the preamplifier output signal into the speakers.


Other than that, I finally got the Modi/Magni and set them up today. I used a 3.5mm to RCA converter to run my speakers through them. However, I do appear to lose all of Creative's audio processing when using optical. No changes in the SBZ control panel have any effect on sound. Based on other threads I'd read I was unsure if this would happen or not. I emailed Schiit and there's apparently no way around it, so for now I've just taken the Modi out of the equation and connected the Magni directly to headphone out on my soundcard. I can definitely notice a difference with/without the Modi, but much of my headphone use is gaming, so I kind of rather wanted to keep the audio processing.

AFAIK there should be a setting on the SBZ to enable DSP through optical output. Check if it defaults to HiFi Mode or whatever when it detects optical out and then reselect Game Mode. You might have to extrapolate here as these are terms by the Marketing Dept and might be different even across the same brand (these are the labels Asus uses on some of their soundcards though).
 
Feb 18, 2018 at 10:16 PM Post #11 of 22
Well, I'm waiting for moderation before I can post in the Creative forums. I've been looking per your suggestions but haven't found a way to enable sound processing over optical yet.

Re the JBLs, I knew they had amps, but when I asked for suggestions on Reddit for speakers that would work well with my Schiit stack, that's what most people responded with. The few passive speaker recommendations also came with suggestions for additional/separate mini-amps. I figured the magni was suitable for headphones but not for driving speakers. Truth be told I'm pretty clueless, though - exactly why I'm trying to get some help.
 
Feb 19, 2018 at 10:55 AM Post #12 of 22
Re the JBLs, I knew they had amps, but when I asked for suggestions on Reddit for speakers that would work well with my Schiit stack, that's what most people responded with. The few passive speaker recommendations also came with suggestions for additional/separate mini-amps. I figured the magni was suitable for headphones but not for driving speakers. Truth be told I'm pretty clueless, though - exactly why I'm trying to get some help.

The reason why powered speakers like the JBL and soem amps like the Magni3 or the Magni2 Uber before it tend to be suggested together is because the latter have preamplifier outputs. That means the volume control on the HPamp will work on the line level output in the rear, so when you need to change the volume on the speakers, you don't need to stand up and reach over to the back of each speaker to move the gain knobs on each. Set the gain knobs to a fixed position where you get to a certain max setting with a lot of travel on the main volume control (ie the HPamp with preamp output) without getting noise.
 
Feb 20, 2018 at 7:17 AM Post #13 of 22
Have a look at info from this thread. At your budget, studio monitors would be a good bet. However, I did try amp and passives and think the quality ceiling is higher; with one caveat that the speakers must be designed for desktop placement (not many are).

If you might be inclined to DIY, Jeff Bagby's Sopranos would be a great choice; good amp choices I'm not sure, though. Perhaps used would make sense. Or a mini amp to start with.
 
Feb 21, 2018 at 5:44 PM Post #14 of 22
Well, I'm waiting for moderation before I can post in the Creative forums. I've been looking per your suggestions but haven't found a way to enable sound processing over optical yet.

Re the JBLs, I knew they had amps, but when I asked for suggestions on Reddit for speakers that would work well with my Schiit stack, that's what most people responded with. The few passive speaker recommendations also came with suggestions for additional/separate mini-amps. I figured the magni was suitable for headphones but not for driving speakers. Truth be told I'm pretty clueless, though - exactly why I'm trying to get some help.

I researched passive speakers + desktop amps myself, quickly concluding it wouldn't save either $$ or increase EQ over powered monitors. I looked at the JBLs but went with refurbed Audioengine A2+ powered monitors for the smaller form factor, as I already have a pair of Rokit 6s for wider soundstage and deeper bass extension. Can't comment on software EQ adjustments for your games, but the Modi 2 Multi /Magni 3 stack is shockingly excellent as a headphone amp AND pre-amp for powered monitors. Budget permitting, you could add the Loki to the stack which would give you very good analog EQ if needed.
 
Feb 23, 2018 at 1:27 AM Post #15 of 22
Well, I haven't been able to find a definite answer about getting Creative's DSP to work over optical out. Can't seem to get moderation approval on Creative forums, made a reddit post on /r/PCAudio and no one answered. I haven't been able to find any setting myself that would enable it. Get the feeling it might not be possible.

I wonder how the LSR305's would sound without the DAC? Since the Modi is the only reason I need to use optical...
 

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