Everything we know is wrong...

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phelonious Ponk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, but I ain't foolin'. P

Yes, you are. You just haven't realized it yet

 

[nycdoi]

since when do numbers tell us how good something sounds

 

[donunus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phelonious Ponk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Easy to say. Show me the $50 DVD player that measures as well. P

huh? The ipod when connected to a home audio system has weak and soft bass just like any portable device. How can the other measurements even matter if they don't even pass the requirement of being truly hifi? Its like saying that a $15 tdk metal blank cassette tape sounds better than a 50 cent blank cd. The latter is the dvd player of course

I liken the ipod to an expensive blank tape because no matter what those other measurements say, their electrical limitations still matter just like the tape being limited by the nature of its format. When connected to the wadia digital dock or the onkyo dock however the story changes.

 

[krmathis]

About time to buy an iPod touch then I guess...
Or an iPhone 3GS, if they use identical audio circuits.

 

[Head Injury]

Unless the Touch is head and shoulders above an iPod 5g, then even a $99 uDAC stomps on it. Numbers don't lie, but they sure do love April Fools.

 

[Ham Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head Injury /img/forum/go_quote.gif Unless the Touch is head and shoulders above an iPod 5g, then even a $99 uDAC stomps on it.

Comparing line out or headphone out?

 

[leveller1642]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif It is not total crap but even a 50 dollar dvd player sounds better than an ipod

Have you heard a 2nd or 3rd gen touch before?

I am not surprised by this guy's findings. I find the headphone output of my 2nd gen touch exceptionally good. Much better than my last gen classic and 2nd gen nano.

 

[donunus]

I meant limited by their nature of only outputting less than 1 volt as a start for example. Maybe portable devices have already surpassed some full size players in sound quality from its line outs, I don't really know since I haven't heard everything out there but as far as everything Ive listened to, portable devices always have weak outputs resulting in a dull non dynamic sound in comparison to inexpensive full sized units which usually sound full and robust by default.

and yah I have a 2g touch. Its okay, not that much better than the 5.5g ipod I also have. Not as good as my pioneer dvd player for example.

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ham Sandwich /img/forum/go_quote.gif Comparing line out or headphone out?

Headphone out on both, or RCA out on uDAC.

Though granted, I only ever compared a Sansa Clip directly to the uDAC, but I liked the Clip as much or more than my iPod and the uDAC was better than it.

 

[leveller1642]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head Injury /img/forum/go_quote.gif Unless the Touch is head and shoulders above an iPod 5g, then even a $99 uDAC stomps on it. Numbers don't lie, but they sure do love April Fools.

unless you prefer a coloured sound the touch does sound better than my 5th gen iPod.

Pardon me for not posting in my above post but I'm writing this on my touch

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nycdoi /img/forum/go_quote.gif since when do numbers tell us how good something sounds

You're not paying attention, I answered that predictable, simplistic grunt in the first paragraph:

. Quote:

..ok, an admittedly over-dramatic thread title, but really, this is pretty revealing stuff. Here on Head-Fi, it is pretty much common belief that the best performance comes from high-end sources, that expensive, even relatively inexpensive outboard DACs are better than the ones that are built into common consumer audio devices and that the big high-impedance phones require outboard, AC-powered amplification to reach beyond the giddy heights of mediocrity. My ears always told me most of that was wrong, though I suspect that most high-impedance phones are also low efficiency and do, at least, require sufficient headroom. The rest of it? You may not be able to listen to numbers, but it's nice when they confirm what you're hearing.

p

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif I meant limited by their nature of only outputting less than 1 volt as a start for example. Maybe portable devices have already surpassed some full size players in sound quality from its line outs, I don't really know since I haven't heard everything out there but as far as everything Ive listened to, portable devices always have weak outputs resulting in a dull non dynamic sound in comparison to inexpensive full sized units which usually sound full and robust by default. and yah I have a 2g touch. Its okay, not that much better than the 5.5g ipod I also have. Not as good as my pioneer dvd player for example.

These measurements are from the headphone out. And of course the little op amps in an iPod are not terribly powerful, but the results are going to depend on the efficiency of the transducers they're attempting to drive. You'll probably get better results with an amp if trying to drive HD650s. Efficient ear canal phones? Probably not.

P

 

[audioengr]

These types of measurements only give you a first-order of what the device will sound like.

They completely miss the dynamic response and the jitter. These are the things the set apart truly live sounding gear.

If there were some impulse response plots with accurate scales, this would at least help. Squarewave pictures are not really helpful. Spectral response of jitter may be helpful too, although who is to say what is good and not good.

BTW, I have both iPod and Ipod Touch.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioengr /img/forum/go_quote.gif These types of measurements only give you a first-order of what the device will sound like. They completely miss the dynamic response and the jitter. These are the things the set apart truly live sounding gear. If there were some impulse response plots with accurate scales, this would at least help. Squarewave pictures are not really helpful. Spectral response of jitter may be helpful too, although who is to say what is good and not good. BTW, I have both iPod and Ipod Touch. Steve N. Empirical Audio

Relax, Steve. No one is going to buy one of your re-clockers for their $150 iPod anyway.

P

 

[donunus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phelonious Ponk /img/forum/go_quote.gif These measurements are from the headphone out. And of course the little op amps in an iPod are not terribly powerful, but the results are going to depend on the efficiency of the transducers they're attempting to drive. You'll probably get better results with an amp if trying to drive HD650s. Efficient ear canal phones? Probably not. P

Ahh ok. So my argument is basically for another thread to discuss. As for the headphone jack, the ipod touch is better than all the other portables Ive had. If I had one complaint, it is that they have slightly artificial highs compared to my 5.5g.