Everything we know is wrong...
Apr 1, 2010 at 2:48 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 56

Phelonious Ponk

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...ok, an admittedly over-dramatic thread title, but really, this is pretty revealing stuff. Here on Head-Fi, it is pretty much common belief that the best performance comes from high-end sources, that expensive, even relatively inexpensive outboard DACs are better than the ones that are built into common consumer audio devices and that the big high-impedance phones require outboard, AC-powered amplification to reach beyond the giddy heights of mediocrity. My ears always told me most of that was wrong, though I suspect that most high-impedance phones are also low efficiency and do, at least, require sufficient headroom. The rest of it? You may not be able to listen to numbers, but it's nice when they confirm what you're hearing.

That kid bobbing his head next to you on the bus? If he has some good ear canal phones he may be doing better than your high-end system...

Quote:

"Apple claims a 20–20,000 Hz response for the iPod Touch. No distortion or level-dependent information is shown in the literature supplied with the iPod. To perform the following tests, I imported the CBS Records CD-1 into iTunes in Apple Lossless format. After connecting the iPod, the Syncing process placed the CD onto the iPod. The iPod's headphone jack was then connected to my computer-based audio analysis software, SpectraPlus (a PHS product that retails for $295–$1295, depending on selected options). SpectraPlus provided a complete spectral analysis of the iPod's audio signal."
To my surprise, the iPod Touch did very well in the tests. All tests were run on a fully-charged battery, and the iPod's volume control was set to maximum. The audio signal from the iPod fed my desktop computer's E-mu 1616M PCI outboard converter. A 30 kHz low-pass filter was used in the tests.

Maximum Output and Distortion: The maximum output and distortion with no load at 1 kHz was 1.04 dBV rms and 0.009% THD. The numbers did not change for loads between 300 to 600 ohms. The unit is easily able to cope with most headphone impedances because the output impedance approaches the ideal, 0.9 ohms. The S/N ratio was –79.5 dB. At a more likely 0.5 dBV rms output level, the distortion was 0.014% and the S/N was –76 dB. The 2nd through 5th harmonic distortion components never exceeded –75 dB. The IMD was 0.008% using the IM standard 60 and 7,000 Hz tones.
Frequency Response at 0.75 dVB rms output, both channels into 300 ohms: 17–16,000 Hz was flat. Between 18–20 kHz the unit was down 0.1 dB, excellent. The highest THD occurred at 12.5 kHz, –55.5 dB, good. Channel separation was typically –50 dB, OK. The output imbalance between channels never exceeded 0.7 dB at 18 kHz, good.

Square Wave Performance: A small ripple was visible, typical for A/D converters. The ringing occurred at the leading edge of the 1 kHz square wave, very good.
..
The Touch presents a nearly distortion-free signal to almost any headphone."


http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/foster/index.htm"][/URL]


...and now we anxiously await the denial...

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Apr 1, 2010 at 3:09 PM Post #4 of 56
It is April 1
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Apr 1, 2010 at 3:20 PM Post #6 of 56
First Google (or Topeka) jacks me, then this. Nice, happy April fools
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Apr 1, 2010 at 3:20 PM Post #7 of 56
Quote:

Originally Posted by ROBSCIX /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Really? Those results don't look all that great too me.


They are beatable, to be sure, but firmly in hi-fi territory. They certainly don't put the iPod, or even its internal DAC, in the flat, dead, lifeless category it is put in by many audiophiles. On the contrary, it puts it with up there with some pretty esoteric sources. Find me a source with a tube in it that measures as well...

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Apr 1, 2010 at 3:31 PM Post #9 of 56
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phelonious Ponk /img/forum/go_quote.gif
They are beatable, to be sure, but firmly in hi-fi territory. They certainly don't put the iPod, or even its internal DAC, in the flat, dead, lifeless category it is put in by many audiophiles. On the contrary, it puts it with up there with some pretty esoteric sources. Find me a source with a tube in it that measures as well...

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What does a tube design have to do with this? The source you're quoting is a solid state design. There are many DAC's that easily surpass those measurments but as we all know that is not the only factor to sound quality. They are good for a portable player though...
 
Apr 1, 2010 at 3:48 PM Post #11 of 56
Quote:

Originally Posted by ROBSCIX /img/forum/go_quote.gif
What does a tube design have to do with this? The source you're quoting is a solid state design. There are many DAC's that easily surpass those measurments but as we all know that is not the only factor to sound quality.


Tubes have nothing to do with it other than that they are so common to "high-end" equipment and generate so much more distortion than an iPod. And they are admittedly a personal pet peeve.

Yes there are DACs that measure better. Whether or not the differences are audible is another question, but I didn't post this to say that an iPod out-performs every piece of high-end gear in the universe, but to demonstrate that it is not the dead, flat, lifeless-sounding crap many audiophiles pretend it is, and to inform all my fellow grumpy old men that that kid with the wires in his ears may not have it all so wrong after all.

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Apr 1, 2010 at 3:52 PM Post #13 of 56
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phelonious Ponk /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Tubes have nothing to do with it other than that they are so common to "high-end" equipment and generate so much more distortion than an iPod. And they are admittedly a personal pet peeve.

Yes there are DACs that measure better. Whether or not the differences are audible is another question, but I didn't post this to say that an iPod out-performs every piece of high-end gear in the universe, but to demonstrate that it is not the dead, flat, lifeless-sounding crap many audiophiles pretend it is, and to inform all my fellow grumpy old men that that kid with the wires in his ears may not have it all so wrong after all.

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Sure. Many portable players have been getting great marks for sound quality.
I will add that in the case of tubes, that certain distortion is part of their draw to many. Which we of course now many type of distortion are favorbale in relation to others that are annoying. Not to go off topic..
back to the Ipod.
 
Apr 1, 2010 at 3:54 PM Post #14 of 56
Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif
It is not total crap but even a 50 dollar dvd player sounds better than an ipod


Easy to say. Show me the $50 DVD player that measures as well.

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