[User9876]

Westone Audio MACH IEMs are now on a deep discount - take advantage of pre-Black Friday sale for 1 more day...
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/westone-audio-big-pre-black-friday-mach-sale.965726/

With all these deep discount sales it seems almost as if they can't sell them, who would have thought that in a time of global austerity.

IMHO its time for all manufacturers of all types of luxury items to re-evaluate there pricing policy with every new "Flagship" model costing more than the previous.

Don't get me wrong its not just Westone here, its all of them.

 

[Zachik]

IMHO its time for all manufacturers of all types of luxury items to re-evaluate there pricing policy with every new "Flagship" model costing more than the previous.

Don't get me wrong its not just Westone here, its all of them.

I actually see both sides of this coin... as a consumer - I agree that it is frustrating to see every new product is more expensive than the one it replaces or improves upon.
On the other hand, knowing how the cost to these manufacturers went through the roof - I understand how they have no real choice but to raise prices!
A really good source for some insider's info are the awesome posts by @Jason Stoddard on the Schiit thread. In fact, he just posted yesterday (Nov. 16) about how the cost for his DACs and amps went up in the last couple years. Quite an eye opener...

 

[User9876]

I actually see both sides of this coin... as a consumer - I agree that it is frustrating to see every new product is more expensive than the one it replaces or improves upon.
On the other hand, knowing how the cost to these manufacturers went through the roof - I understand how they have no real choice but to raise prices!
A really good source for some insider's info are the awesome posts by @Jason Stoddard on the Schiit thread. In fact, he just posted yesterday (Nov. 16) about how the cost for his DACs and amps went up in the last couple years. Quite an eye opener...

I agree with you agreeing but there is a trade-off to be made, the old less profit per unit sold but more units sold trade-off.

To answer the point about the price of the DAC chips and amps going up I would say "poppycock". My answer is based on the typical price of a DAC chip going up from say $50 to $100 (example numbers only) The product is being sold for $1000 (again example number) as a flagship product, the parts cost goes from $200 to perhaps $300 so why not swallow the $50 or $100 as a smaller profit margin or increase the price to $1300 instead of putting the price up $1000 to $2000? I see many examples of this greed in the portable audio market.

Do you see my point?
I can't believe the price of a typical balanced armature has gone up that much either. The cost to make these flagship IEM's is probably less than $100. I don't disagree that there are other costs involved that must be recouped but $1400 profit on an item is probably daylight robbery, but good if you can get away with it.

Before you say, these are luxury items and you don't have to buy them, I 100% agree and for the moment I'm not buying but enjoying the HeadFi items I already own, this hobby has just got a little too spendy for me at the moment until there is some kind of price reset.

Plus of course there is always the second hand market.

 

[Bret Halford]

Inflation is only part of the story, a bigger part of it is a shrinking, aging market. Stoddard in particular has eloquently shared his experience through the exact same transitional era for 2 channel decades back, and they focused Schiit on headphones to try and 'protect' the hobby from the same sort of luxury-creep that took hold there. Keeping good budget gear a core part of your product focus is necessary to get young customers, and those are your future business.

Personally, I think headphones are further down that path than IEMs. There's definitely more competitive pressure from other geographic markets at the top end. Part of it is enabled by an entrenched, measurement based expertise that is prevalent in the community (the reality is it's much easier to get useful IEM measurements on a cheap 711 clone than for headphones) that helps keep the value prospect grounded.

In any case, I really don't see Westone or Lucid as particularly egregious for pricing over time. The Mach series is not much more expensive than the W series: I see $1499 USD for the final W80 model in 2018 vs $1599 MSRP for the Mach80 in 2022. Not exactly a huge increase, particularly given Westones have always seemed to discount relatively quickly.

If we're speculating on the success of the products, I'd be more inclined to blame customer confusion. Frankly, the product structure that Lucid purchased from Westone is a dinosaur. It was made from a time that it made sense to structure your products by driver count. More drivers is better is more money, right? Well that used to be the pervasive wisdom lol.

The result is just too many variants, launching 8 IEMs at once is crazy, and the resulting confusion in how they are marketed is understandable. But at the end of the day a confused customer is probably not going to be a customer at all, we don't all have the benefits of chatting with Lucid folks directly to understand where each model excels...

TLDR: Holy cow look at those prices on Mach series! Go buy a Mach 50/60 (balanced), 70 (bass) or 80 (detail) before the sale ends

 

[emdeevee]

I agree. But after searching on eBay for 3rd party T2 cable for a long time, and not being able to find a suitable one and Etymotic also does not offer a balanced option, I cut my kidney out and traded it in. So, last week I bled the money for a balanced T2 Linum SuperBax 4.4mm TRRRS for my Etymotic EVO. But that price... you have to be insane or they really have to add something extra. I will see when I receive them... But I guess I like my EVO's so much that I just wanted to spoil them for one times sake.

After 2 years of living with UE18+ Pro CIEM and it's standard 3.5mm SE cable, and never thinking about those other 2 outputs on my DAP (the balanced ones), I found that UE had a pricy (at $249 not the worst) balanced IPX cable, so I went for it. After reading enough posts here to justify, and having spent real $ on the DAP and UE iem, it was time to see what those other 2 outputs actually output.

Dear God, what a revelation. Lower volumes (of course), but wow, finally Soundstage and layering and transparency became the forefront and the power drove my phones more powerfully than I had ever heard. For years I had been missing this. I have never gone back, and every purchase for my ears must accommodate a balanced cable (boo hoo old Ellas, my only remain 3.5mm).

If you have the source, get out of that 3.5mm SE output. You will be glad you did.

 

[rasmushorn]

After 2 years of living with UE18+ Pro CIEM and it's standard 3.5mm SE cable, and never thinking about those other 2 outputs on my DAP (the balanced ones), I found that UE had a pricy (at $249 not the worst) balanced IPX cable, so I went for it. After reading enough posts here to justify, and having spent real $ on the DAP and UE iem, it was time to see what those other 2 outputs actually output.

Dear God, what a revelation. Lower volumes (of course), but wow, finally Soundstage and layering and transparency became the forefront and the power drove my phones more powerfully than I had ever heard. For years I had been missing this. I have never gone back, and every purchase for my ears must accommodate a balanced cable (boo hoo old Ellas, my only remain 3.5mm).

If you have the source, get out of that 3.5mm SE output. You will be glad you did.

I DID get out of the single ended life... BUT... I really did not get the same revelation as you.
Yes... bass might be going a bit deeper but I am not sure I can tell the difference in a blind test. The problem for me is that it takes a minute or two to change the cable and plug in again. In that time the difference is not big enough to have that same experience of night and day. Maybe the EVO's are not as difficult to drive as your UE18 or might not be as revealing? Maybe the EarMen Angel's single ended output is just very good? I do not know. I am not sure the change is worth the substantial amount of money for the SuperBaX cable...

 

[Zachik]

The Mach series is not much more expensive than the W series: I see $1499 USD for the final W80 model in 2018 vs $1599 MSRP for the Mach80 in 2022. Not exactly a huge increase

Agreed.

launching 8 IEMs at once is crazy, and the resulting confusion in how they are marketed is understandable

Westone Audio (as well as some of the early reviewers) have been trying to explain the differences between the various models.
The problem with staggered release: what if MACH 10 through 40 get released, some people buy the top 40 model only to discover later that there are 4 models positioned above it? At least when releasing all 8 models at once - you know there are no surprises being added later to cause buyer's remorse.
I am not saying it is perfect, but the folks at Etymotic and Westone Audio are doing their best to be fair and customer focused. Companies cannot please everyone, but they are trying to please as many people as they can...

Couple important notes:
I am NOT a Lucid / Etymotic / Westone Audio employee.
I see first hand (and am trying to help them with) their efforts to do right by the audiophile community.

 

[MarkParity]

I DID get out of the single ended life... BUT... I really did not get the same revelation as you.
Yes... bass might be going a bit deeper but I am not sure I can tell the difference in a blind test. The problem for me is that it takes a minute or two to change the cable and plug in again. In that time the difference is not big enough to have that same experience of night and day. Maybe the EVO's are not as difficult to drive as your UE18 or might not be as revealing? Maybe the EarMen Angel's single ended output is just very good? I do not know. I am not sure the change is worth the substantial amount of money for the SuperBaX cable...

What you have observed is certainly true its not always as clearcut as to say balanced is always better. Some sources are obviously optimised when used with the Balanced output and some not, so both outputs will sound the same.

Perhaps your Angels outputs are indeed very close in specs and performance.

 

[rasmushorn]

What you have observed is certainly true its not always as clearcut as to say balanced is always better. Some sources are obviously optimised when used with the Balanced output and some not, so both outputs will sound the same.

Perhaps your Angels outputs are indeed very close in specs and performance.

Thanks for the support I will continue to investigate the balanced output now that I have one. Maybe I can use that as an excuse to get myself another pair of IEMs or earbuds.

 

[emdeevee]

All really good points. It does depend on the source of those balanced inputs. Thus far, my only experience with them is on my A&K DAPs and with those, I hear a distinct difference beyond just more volume/power.

 

[zerogorgor]

Looks like the SuperBax cables that come with the higher end MACH models have the ear-hook, what a shame. I (vaguely) remember one of the selling points of the Linum cables upon their launch was that they were so soft and light that users wouldn't need an ear hook/metallic wire

 

[Bret Halford]

Looks like the SuperBax cables that come with the higher end MACH models have the ear-hook, what a shame. I (vaguely) remember one of the selling points of the Linum cables upon their launch was that they were so soft and light that users wouldn't need an ear hook/metallic wire

The Westone SuperBax balanced 2.5 mm has no earhooks. You could prob also just buy direct from Linum.

I totally prefer them with hooks myself, but YMMV of course.

 

[Tiax]

Looks like the SuperBax cables that come with the higher end MACH models have the ear-hook, what a shame. I (vaguely) remember one of the selling points of the Linum cables upon their launch was that they were so soft and light that users wouldn't need an ear hook/metallic wire

The hooks aren't so bad though.
I hate hooks with wires with passion, but these have no wires, it's just am extra heat shrink tube. No comfort issues, and i think it also protects the wire since that's the place where it contacts the skin.

 

[sjcal]

What you have observed is certainly true its not always as clearcut as to say balanced is always better. Some sources are obviously optimised when used with the Balanced output and some not, so both outputs will sound the same.

Perhaps your Angels outputs are indeed very close in specs and performance.

If you could pick just one iem in between mach 80 or ie 900, which would you pick?

 

[rwelles]

If you could pick just one iem in between mach 80 or ie 900, which would you pick?

I happen to be lucky enough to own both. Which is better depends on what you want in an iem. The IE900 has better sub-bass punch, a little bit better detail, and taller soundstage. The Mach 80 has more even response and much wider soundstage.

If you listen to reggae, rap, or dance music, probably the IE900. If you tastes range toward classic rock, jazz, or classical, then the Mach 80. I really like both. If I had to choose one, I think the Mach 80 is a better all-rounder. But you'll risk bodily injury is you try to pry my IE900s from me!! hth