Etymotic ER4 series - anyone still favor them?
Jun 12, 2009 at 4:14 PM Post #76 of 89
My modified ER-4P is still my standard portable headphone, and I like it more than ever – since the Audéo (now and then disputing its place) has taught me how to ideally equalize it on my iAudio7.
.
 
Jun 12, 2009 at 4:29 PM Post #77 of 89
Quote:

Originally Posted by KrooLism /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Are you kidding me?

I want to be buried with my ER4's.

And go the 4S.


I'd go for the 4P and add the 4S converter cable. That way you can try 'em both. I started out with the 4P and ended up using them with the 4S cable. At least for these ears, the 4S was more balanced and even. In any case you'll have the best of both worlds.

By the way, I found that the ER4 needed a good amp, regardless of P or S version. The P version seems to be an easier load, but the S seem to do better with a bit of current. My Pico AMP/DAC exhibit good synergy!
 
Jun 12, 2009 at 5:40 PM Post #78 of 89
I have and love the ER4S. The point of finding the right amp with the Ety's can't be emphasized enough. This headphone seem to scale up or down pretty drastically depending on what is in front. With that said, I am still interested in trying the Westone ES3X or the new JH13.
 
Jun 12, 2009 at 8:36 PM Post #80 of 89
Just picked up a used pair. I owned the ER-4S about 4-5 years ago and really enjoyed them. If they synergize well enough with the Bada PH-12 hybrid amp, they may supplant the D5000 as my closed 'phones (with upcoming downsizing for financial reasons). : )
 
Jun 12, 2009 at 9:03 PM Post #81 of 89
I mostly use ER4 when traveling (i.e. on an airplane, when I really need noise isolation). Otherwise full-size headphone is better in terms of sound quality and comfort
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Jun 13, 2009 at 5:35 AM Post #83 of 89
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kclone /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I have and love the ER4S. The point of finding the right amp with the Ety's can't be emphasized enough. This headphone seem to scale up or down pretty drastically depending on what is in front. With that said, I am still interested in trying the Westone ES3X or the new JH13.


Hey Kclone. Yep, the ER4 is a nice product. I think you'd find the ES3X several steps beyond, and that would of course be expected for the price delta. The JH13 is getting some attention pre-production. It'll be interesting to see how it comes out.
 
Jun 13, 2009 at 12:03 PM Post #84 of 89
I was all set to pull the trigger on the ES3X until I started to hear about the Harvey products. I want to see what all the hype is about. From reading the Camjam impressions it seems everyone that listened to the JH13 love them. However, I don't recall any ES3X using getting a listen at them, most people that heard them came from the UE10 and UE11. So other than maybe Headphone Addict, I don't know or have not seen any ES3X users do a comparison between the ES3X and the JH13. I suspect one is not better than the other, just different and it may just come down to preference instead of one being outright better than the other. We shall see soon enough. Should be interesting.
 
Jun 13, 2009 at 3:30 PM Post #85 of 89
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kclone /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I suspect one is not better than the other, just different and it may just come down to preference instead of one being outright better than the other.


Agreed.

Too bad, though, that for anyone to actually "know" for themselves, they'll be out 2K. Ouch!
 
Jun 13, 2009 at 9:38 PM Post #86 of 89
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rdr. Seraphim /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Hey Kclone. Yep, the ER4 is a nice product. I think you'd find the ES3X several steps beyond, and that would of course be expected for the price delta. The JH13 is getting some attention pre-production. It'll be interesting to see how it comes out.


I tried my friend's ES3X and compared it to my Er-4p and K701 today.
Yeah, they're custom fit but I actually managed to get a seal, and a decent one when squishing my ears. So I could actually listen to them! It hurt like hell... The ES3X is several steps beyond my ER-4P. It's on level with my k701, though it is a different animal.

Soundstage:
Instrument's location in the mix or on stage is as clear as it gets, the ES3X really doesn't impose it's own stage-agenda on the music. It clearly portrays the location of the instruments to you, and DAMN each one of them sings! Sound stage isn't extremely ultra wide, it's suitable for IEMS in terms of width. But it IS beautiful and lively. While it doesn't impose stage agendas, it also can't portray orchestral music like the k701 can, and many other ensembles that aren't necessarily too big sound a lot better on the k701.

The soundstage of the k701 is obviously wider, a lot wider. Gives you a more realistic feeling, the acoustics of the room are a lot more conveyable, and the bigger the room/hall is, the more it suits the K701. However, with small ensembles (rather than orchestral works), the k701 seems to be a bit too wide, and lacks punch in that matter especially with the leading instruments, located in the center. As if there isn't enough music to fill the large hall that's a given with the k701. This effect is a plus/minus depending on what I'm listening to. (note that my k701 has 100 hrs of burn in, and most negative effects have been noted to become better and better with time.) They EXTREMELY shine with drums, big ensembles, some jazz ensembles and orchestral music. They're definitely not Rock or Pop headphones, they're way to revealing, and rock/pop/metal is heavily processed music that doesn't transcend through the k701.

The Etymotics seem to sweep all instruments and voices to the corner, giving you a kind of [size=large]"yes, I AM an IEM"[/size] feeling. Sounds congested and inflexible. However, I never heard it like this until I listened to the Westone es-3x and k701. The etymotics are amazing compared their price point, the westone's are several price points above. If the K701 is a 3D form surrounding you shedding light on you, the ES3X a miniature 3D form which you are part of, the ER-4P are more of a 2D Wall of sound. (Well, that's only after listening to the westones and k701).

Frequency response, sound signature, whatever I'm a noob:

K701 - Ultimately realistic, therefore suiting highly realistic recordings the most.
Acoustic music is recorded as is, and the natural acoustics of the room sound as real as it gets, nothing conveys that like the k701. Fairly bright, yet never fatiguing, extremely detailed and airy. The more processed the music is, the less flattering it sounds on the k701. Not to say it sounds bad, but other contenders can deal with processed music better, while they can't make acoustic music breath like the k701 do. I suppose High-end senns, though I've never heard any above 100$. Bass isn't up-front - in your face. It's dull with some recordings and really cool with others.
Doesn't Siiiing like the westones does, but the westone seems to SINNNNG to much when it comes to classical music. Acoustic bass feels like it's unplugged, as is, rather than compressed and amplified. Again, great with acoustic recordings, not as shiny with electric instruments.

Er-4p - Like a miniature version of the k701, but with deeper punchier bass and messier treble response. I never heard grados, but when I listened to the 4P after the es3x and k701 I just thought "wow, so this is how grado's sound like?" Can be very fatiguing, and after listening to the k701 and ES3X, there seems to be lots of acoustic distortion inside these. Treble sounds messy and undefined, causing a supposed "detailed" perception, but detailed in ways that often result in tonal mess and mischief. Sounds congested.


ES-3X - Plenty bassy, the bass is amazing in it's presentation. Deep warm and lovin', yet not at the expense of anything else. Each of the instruments sound fully formed, loving and singing! Sounds darker than the 4P, and the k701. Sound comes from darkness and sings all the way to you. Sings -inside- you, fills your mind with a concrete formed figure of sound. I never listened to these enough, but they're a real pleasure. They shine with jazz, rock... Horns sound amazing with these, mid-low mid response just makes you love horns. I don't remember I heard a saxophone sound so complete in terms of frequency response.
Too bassy for classical recordings, and too much mid-centered for orchestral music (and most chamber music). There seems to be a treble roll off, thus the beautiful yet not always suiting - dark signature that doesn't present the performance hall in all it's glory.

Take into account the ER-4P cost a 1/6 of what the westones do, and compete amazing with other iem's in it's level. So to the question, YES, I absolutely favor the ER4.

That's my few words from a noob. Descriptions are often childish and impulsive. I hope it helped
 
Jun 14, 2009 at 5:04 AM Post #87 of 89
Quote:

Originally Posted by nadavnaz /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I tried my friend's ES3X and compared it to my Er-4p and K701 today.
Yeah, they're custom fit but I actually managed to get a seal, and a decent one when squishing my ears. So I could actually listen to them! It hurt like hell... The ES3X is several steps beyond my ER-4P. It's on level with my k701, though it is a different animal.

Soundstage:
Instrument's location in the mix or on stage is as clear as it gets, the ES3X really doesn't impose it's own stage-agenda on the music. It clearly portrays the location of the instruments to you, and DAMN each one of them sings! Sound stage isn't extremely ultra wide, it's suitable for IEMS in terms of width. But it IS beautiful and lively. While it doesn't impose stage agendas, it also can't portray orchestral music like the k701 can, and many other ensembles that aren't necessarily too big sound a lot better on the k701.

The soundstage of the k701 is obviously wider, a lot wider. Gives you a more realistic feeling, the acoustics of the room are a lot more conveyable, and the bigger the room/hall is, the more it suits the K701. However, with small ensembles (rather than orchestral works), the k701 seems to be a bit too wide, and lacks punch in that matter especially with the leading instruments, located in the center. As if there isn't enough music to fill the large hall that's a given with the k701. This effect is a plus/minus depending on what I'm listening to. (note that my k701 has 100 hrs of burn in, and most negative effects have been noted to become better and better with time.) They EXTREMELY shine with drums, big ensembles, some jazz ensembles and orchestral music. They're definitely not Rock or Pop headphones, they're way to revealing, and rock/pop/metal is heavily processed music that doesn't transcend through the k701.

The Etymotics seem to sweep all instruments and voices to the corner, giving you a kind of [size=large]"yes, I AM an IEM"[/size] feeling. Sounds congested and inflexible. However, I never heard it like this until I listened to the Westone es-3x and k701. The etymotics are amazing compared their price point, the westone's are several price points above. If the K701 is a 3D form surrounding you shedding light on you, the ES3X a miniature 3D form which you are part of, the ER-4P are more of a 2D Wall of sound. (Well, that's only after listening to the westones and k701).

Frequency response, sound signature, whatever I'm a noob:

K701 - Ultimately realistic, therefore suiting highly realistic recordings the most.
Acoustic music is recorded as is, and the natural acoustics of the room sound as real as it gets, nothing conveys that like the k701. Fairly bright, yet never fatiguing, extremely detailed and airy. The more processed the music is, the less flattering it sounds on the k701. Not to say it sounds bad, but other contenders can deal with processed music better, while they can't make acoustic music breath like the k701 do. I suppose High-end senns, though I've never heard any above 100$. Bass isn't up-front - in your face. It's dull with some recordings and really cool with others.
Doesn't Siiiing like the westones does, but the westone seems to SINNNNG to much when it comes to classical music. Acoustic bass feels like it's unplugged, as is, rather than compressed and amplified. Again, great with acoustic recordings, not as shiny with electric instruments.

Er-4p - Like a miniature version of the k701, but with deeper punchier bass and messier treble response. I never heard grados, but when I listened to the 4P after the es3x and k701 I just thought "wow, so this is how grado's sound like?" Can be very fatiguing, and after listening to the k701 and ES3X, there seems to be lots of acoustic distortion inside these. Treble sounds messy and undefined, causing a supposed "detailed" perception, but detailed in ways that often result in tonal mess and mischief. Sounds congested.


ES-3X - Plenty bassy, the bass is amazing in it's presentation. Deep warm and lovin', yet not at the expense of anything else. Each of the instruments sound fully formed, loving and singing! Sounds darker than the 4P, and the k701. Sound comes from darkness and sings all the way to you. Sings -inside- you, fills your mind with a concrete formed figure of sound. I never listened to these enough, but they're a real pleasure. They shine with jazz, rock... Horns sound amazing with these, mid-low mid response just makes you love horns. I don't remember I heard a saxophone sound so complete in terms of frequency response.
Too bassy for classical recordings, and too much mid-centered for orchestral music (and most chamber music). There seems to be a treble roll off, thus the beautiful yet not always suiting - dark signature that doesn't present the performance hall in all it's glory.

Take into account the ER-4P cost a 1/6 of what the westones do, and compete amazing with other iem's in it's level. So to the question, YES, I absolutely favor the ER4.

That's my few words from a noob. Descriptions are often childish and impulsive. I hope it helped


nadavnaz, I think you did a good job describing some of the differences between the ER4 and the ES3X. (Amazing that you were able to get a good seal with someone else's custom!) Although, I have a different impression of the ES3X with classical, which I mostly listen to. To me the ES3X is spot on with the midrange, which is where the majority of the frequency spectrum lies for orchestral music. Here's a quote about the importance of the proper reproduction of the midrange from a reviewer I have followed for a number of years, Dick Olsher (from an earlier post I made about the ES3X):

“You might wonder why I'm obsessed with the midrange as the cornerstone of musicality. It's really a function of the physics of musical instruments. The average spectrum of the orchestra peaks around 400Hz to 500Hz, and then decreases with increasing frequency. The mean spectral level at 2.5kHz to 3kHz is already about 20dB below the peak. And, of course, the lower midrange is rich in fundamentals and their first overtones. In particular, the range of 262Hz to 330Hz (C4 to E4) is common to all voices. In my book, if a component can't get it right in the midrange, frequency extension, imaging, etc., matter very little. The midrange, to my mind, is literally the heart of the matter.”

The ER4, to me is too lean in this important region. At least it errors on the side of omission, rather than overhyping or purposeful coloration. Some would find the ER4 dry sounding, or lacking fulness.

I can't emphasize the importance of driving the ER4 with a quality amplifier. It really needs some current to set it free.

By the way, I use Westone's custom ear mold with my ER4 (Style No. 34) to eliminate issues with SQ when using different ear tips. Imaging is dramatically improved, and there is no sibilance that some report.
 
Jun 14, 2009 at 10:53 AM Post #88 of 89
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rdr. Seraphim /img/forum/go_quote.gif
nadavnaz, I think you did a good job describing some of the differences between the ER4 and the ES3X. (Amazing that you were able to get a good seal with someone else's custom!) Although, I have a different impression of the ES3X with classical, which I mostly listen to. To me the ES3X is spot on with the midrange, which is where the majority of the frequency spectrum lies for orchestral music. Here's a quote about the importance of the proper reproduction of the midrange from a reviewer I have followed for a number of years, Dick Olsher (from an earlier post I made about the ES3X):

“You might wonder why I'm obsessed with the midrange as the cornerstone of musicality. It's really a function of the physics of musical instruments. The average spectrum of the orchestra peaks around 400Hz to 500Hz, and then decreases with increasing frequency. The mean spectral level at 2.5kHz to 3kHz is already about 20dB below the peak. And, of course, the lower midrange is rich in fundamentals and their first overtones. In particular, the range of 262Hz to 330Hz (C4 to E4) is common to all voices. In my book, if a component can't get it right in the midrange, frequency extension, imaging, etc., matter very little. The midrange, to my mind, is literally the heart of the matter.”

The ER4, to me is too lean in this important region. At least it errors on the side of omission, rather than overhyping or purposeful coloration. Some would find the ER4 dry sounding, or lacking fulness.

I can't emphasize the importance of driving the ER4 with a quality amplifier. It really needs some current to set it free.

By the way, I use Westone's custom ear mold with my ER4 (Style No. 34) to eliminate issues with SQ when using different ear tips. Imaging is dramatically improved, and there is no sibilance that some report.


Sounds interesting! I guess it does have a lot to do with fit.

While it is true that most music happens in the midrange, it doesn't mean the overtones produced from that area don't make a difference.
With classical recordings I found that while the music was happening, there was a failure in allowing the sound bloom into the upper overtones... They were very musical, but the rich orchestra sound which focuses in the midrange stayed there... The midragne failed to drive the upper frequencies that resonate and make you smile.

What didn't satisfy me with classical recordings, made me smile 360* when listening to my jazz recordings. Everything was so alive and singing, and the dirt that happens in higher frequencies with many jazz recordings wasn't emphasized. The ER4 was pretty much in every aspect inferior to the westones... When describing the Westone's draw-backs my main reference point is the k701.

It does make sense however that the er-4 positioned correctly in one's year would sound a lot better. The "acoustic distortion" I described might have to do with the ear canals more than the plastic casing.

But again, take into mind the er-4 costs 170 dollars. : ) And as I've read (not heard unfortunately) they improve in huge levels with cable, source and other upgrades.
 
Jan 28, 2012 at 3:18 PM Post #89 of 89
Sorry to dig this post back up from the dredges.

I have been using a set of ER4-PT for about a year. At first I liked the very cold flat sound of them, but over time I found them painful to wear at longer periods of time (4-8 hours) this was mostly due to the way they sat in my ears using the triple flanges. I still have them but I hardly use them anymore. I am favoring my Shure 535s a bit more. They fit more comfortably and they sound so much more expansive.

My basic set up is a POD HD500 pedal board which I route from my computer (USB) into an Audio Technica M2 wireless monitor bodypack into a hard-wire airplane converter something or other (I got it from multiple boxes of UE700's before they changed the package into the poor version they now serve. Effectively that wire reduces vast amounts of white noise from the IEMs.) and into my Etys. [hmm, that doesn't seem so basic typed out like that ]

I used them a lot for my personal music recordings and general play back of music. I recently realized I have developed a bit of a ring in my ears since using those ER4s. My ears are my livelihood so this ring is very disturbing. I attribute it to the etys being too close to my eardrums to really understand how loud the music was getting. Though I did constant tests to make sure I was not killing my ears and marking the lines on the volume control to what my graphs and speakers were saying was "too loud." Addtionally I always wear my earplugs at shows and I used the etys when monitoring the music one stage too.

So in short: I liked the Etys enough to use them for about a year, but I switched to the Shure 535s and am now rethinking my decision for buying the ER4-PTs. I will probably keep them around for signal checks in my music, but they are no longer my earphone of choice.
 
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