[momerath]

I have some ER4Ps with a, once flakey, now nearly-always-absent right channel. It seems clear to me that it's the cable, though I haven't done the ultimate test of swapping drivers, because I was worried about making the connection loose; I'd obviously do that before making any final decision to use them, but let's assume it's the cable.

Etymotics hasn't yet responded to my email about buying a replacement cable (certainly they're out of warranty being more than 5 years old), but I've seen another post where someone said it was $50. I'm hesitant to spend that given what people have said about the cable's quality (being spliced, etc), and the microphonics, which have always bothered me. The only 3rd party cable I've seen (available now) is APS, which means $180 for the length I need.

I'm pretty skeptical that a cable could make enough difference to justify that price (for me), and I'm curious about the Phonaks, which people compare to the ER4, often favorably. I'm quite fond of the Ety sound, so I'm not looking for a radical departure, but the claims of better bass extension are intriguing. I would also find the microphone option useful, so I'm kinda leaning toward the Phonaks, and I'm pretty sure I'd buy them over the hf2, for instance, but given the fixable ER4s I already have, would I be throwing money and/or better SQ away?

And then there are the possibilities at higher prices. Maybe you can convince me I should save up for some W3s or something. Feel free to try

I would initially be using whatever IEMs mostly straight out of a dap, but I have vague plans for reviving my insane luggable rig (notebook->squeezebox->dAck->(something)->er4/phonak), so scalability is a factor (I'm even considering getting a balanced cable from APS and building a (trans)portable balanced amp like doobooloo's). Also, I mostly listen to post rock, idm and classical (and couldn't care less about how vocals sound).

 

[mvw2]

Any cable will do. Generally, wire is wire. It really has very little impact on the end result simply because it can not physically do much. The differences between one wire to another is rather minute.

Now head-fi and IEMs do operate on a smaller scale. The voltages are much smaller. Quiet to loud is on a scale of mW rather then W. Peak voltage is in fractions rather then whole numbers. The scale is simply different.

However, at the same tiime the scale is so small that some of the influences involved (limitations) really aren't there. You're not going to see great variation from one wire to another.

I'd prefer some science on it, like actual test data showing voltage drop, resistance/impedance, variation of intput to output wave pattern, anything that shows that one option is superior to another.

In the end, the best option I see is the cable setup that you like the most, one that is flexible, light, durable, built smartly, resists transmission of microphonics, etc. For example, I dislike the stock ER4S cable. It's pretty bulky. I'm not terribly fond of the clip. A lighter design would deem it unnecessary.

 

[mogata]

Removing the cable from the drivers a couple of times will not make the connection loose as long as you pull the drivers off straight and not wiggle it off.

As for the APS cable, it does sound a little better than stock, but not a big difference. Also, I think the APS cable is more microphonic than the stock ER-4 cable. Most owner resort to wearing the cable over the ear to address this. Good cable though.

 

[jhoff80]

If you're curious about the cable, maybe you can buy it, and then if it doesn't help enough you could always sell your ER4-P, I'm sure there's a few people that would buy it especially with the recable off the forums here.

 

[M3NTAL]

tried changing the filters yet?

 

[GreatDane]

Quote:

Originally Posted by momerath /img/forum/go_quote.gif >>> I'm quite fond of the Ety sound, so I'm not looking for a radical departure, but the claims of better bass extension are intriguing...

The Phonaks aren't radically different but they could be a shock for a long time ER4 user...and make no mistake, the Phonak bass is much more prominent...better! It takes a 6 dB. 100Hz. boost with my XM5 to get close with ER4 and even then I like the Phonak better. With Rockbox the ER4 bass can be every bit as good but my main iPod these days is a 120 Classic so I lose that option in favor of more storage.

 

[tnmike1]

love my Apuresound and made aHUGE difference in SQ, but that said, I'm running a 3Move amp and an Imod, so your results may vary. And yes, microphonics are huge but I only use the Ety/Apuresound while reading or writing so for active use resort to my X10

 

[mark_h]

I had the apuresound and the microphonics were terrible, the sound quality only marginally better. I prefer the stock cable any day. I sold the apuresound after about 2 months because it was for a portable rig and the microphonics rendered it unlistenable.

 

[chi2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreatDane /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Phonaks aren't radically different but they could be a shock for a long time ER4 user...and make no mistake, the Phonak bass is much more prominent...better! It takes a 6 dB. 100Hz. boost with my XM5 to get close with ER4 and even then I like the Phonak better. With Rockbox the ER4 bass can be every bit as good but my main iPod these days is a 120 Classic so I lose that option in favor of more storage.

x2 - and I'm a long-term ETY enthusiast. While the ER4S are still very good, the Phonaks are just amazing. They already sound great directly out of my rockboxed 5G iPod. Adding a good amp like the Corda Move makes them really sing and shine. The depth, impact, and definition of the bass rivals and exeeds even high quality full size headphones (HD600, K701, SR-Lambda Sig). Think of the Phonaks (with black filters) as ER4S with said bass boost, slightly less treble emphasis but as much mid and high frequency detail, and much larger soundstage.

 

[Jabada]

Try Audio Technica CK10.
I am a ER4S user and I am pretty happy with the AT sound.
It has a good sensitivity (108dB) wich makes it perfect with no external AMP.
But only if you find for a good price.

 

[FlyPenFly]

With the black filters, the PFEs kind of sound veiled to me like someone put a tiny sock over the driver.

 

[tstarn06]

The filter debate has fans on both sides, of course. Guess the gray filters are more to your taste.

 

[mvw2]

Think PFE + gray = ER4S The response graphs are pretty close to each other through the midrange and treble. The PFE is a little rougher up top and a little more output over the bass region, ramping up slowly at around 400Hz and is +3dB the ER4 by 100Hz and stays +3dB all the way down.

The way the notes are presented are inherently different. You really can't make the ER4S sound like the PFE or visa versa. The response is very similar (with gray), the raw sound quality is pretty comparable, but the way the information is presented is a little different. The ER4S has more drawn out notes with good attack and decay times. This makes for a lot of body and texture within the note. I haven't heard another IEM compare, and the ER4S reminds me heavily of listening to a full sized loudspeaker in how it recreates sound. The PFE is different. It has more energy, a stronger attack, but the decay is quick. You get a cleaner, lighter presence that is also more energetic. However, the body isn't quite there. Overall sound is more transparent and direct in experience. The bass emphasis does make for a slightly warm sound relative to the ER4S(still gray filters on PFE).

PFE : source -> what you hear
ER4S: source -> sounds like a loudspeaker playing -> what you hear

PFE: energetic, warm, light, clean, direct
ER4S: balanced, body, full sized speaker sound, indirect

Small note on the indirect nature. It does make the sound stage bigger. It's never really in your head and more out in the open.

 

[momerath]

Etymotics replied today:

"I am happy to further evaluate your earphones. We can replace the cable if needed. We do not sell and ship any complaints for the ER4 earphones. Although it appears to be simple to remove the cable from the transducer housing, there is a small component in the design that if the cable is not properly removed, this component is known to break and some times may cause damage to the connectors and housing. This is why the cables are not a 'plug and play' design like one would observe."

And they sent me an RMA #. I had, in my email to them, specified that I *really* didn't want to be without them. I use them every day to listen to audiobooks or watch videos (I'd listen to music if I had 2 channels) on my n800 while working out, running errands, and 3 times a week on the bus. I don't have anything else remotely serviceable as a replacement (earbuds dont stay in my ears and the eliptical I use is *loud*, as is the bus).

So anyway, the upshot is that I'm going to order some phonaks. Then I'll have the option to send the Etys away, sell them or maybe get a balanced cable and amp at some point, but I probably won't do any of these any time soon if the PFEs sound as good as people here are saying. Goodbye team Ety- it's been fun.

Thanks to all who contributed to my decision. One last question: where's the best place to buy the PFEs in the US? I see 2 amazon sellers, but neither have much history.

 

[robm321]

I've owned the Ety ER4s and to me the Phonaks simply are more competent across the board. The Etys have great highs but sound thin and horrible on bad recordings. The Phonaks are everything I wanted the Etys to be.

The one thing I'd point out that is very important is the fact that the Phonaks are analytical sounding and the Phonaks are right between euphonic and analytical.

I bought the Shure E500s to compliment the Etys, because the Etys didn't satisfy by themselves, the Phonaks are good IEMs on their own for all types of music whether it was recorded well or not.