[gerG]

Sort of rushed, but the info is there (I hope). Crooked pictures too!

Behringer deq2496 update

Acrobat reader required.


gerG

 

[zeplin]

gerg,
some day i will get this EQ. how much was it? and when you say you are using a panasonic 963sa, don't you mean the philips? i have decided that my next purchase, and i won't even be buying it (my b-day), will be a new source, which hopefully will give me a little better bass extention than with my rather "low end" sony dvd/cd. oh yeah, and sorry i never got the chance to stop by while in AZ, i was just too busy. so again, after i get the new source, i'm definitely going for an eq like the new one you just bought. so what do ya think of my decision to go for a new source?

 

[TravelLite]

Looking really nice, gerG! Excellent!

TravelLite

 

[j-curve]

gerG,
Thanks for this much anticipated review! You have confirmed my hopes that this would be a killer product. The ergonomics provided by the display (despite the barfy colour) and rotary controls alone would be a welcome upgrade to my DSP1124P, for sure. Optical input is just the icing on the cake. A few questions though, if I may, mostly because I'm unclear on how sampling rates are handled inside this gizmo:-

1. What does the "Sample Rate" screen do? Can you select the sample rate or is it just telling you what the input rate is?
2. When driving the optical input from a CD player (16 bit, 44.1kHz) do the internals run at 44.1kHz or is the sampling rate converted first?
3. What about the optical output? Does it mimic the format of the input or can you select the rate and resolution?
4. What about the analog outputs? Are they always running at 96kHz or do they mimic the input?
5. When running from analog inputs do the internals always run flat strap at 96kHz or is that selectable too?
6. You mentioned making balanced XLR to RCA connectors for the analog output - why not use the 6.3mm auxilliary outputs with RCA adaptors?
7. Does your XLR->RCA cable ground the negative output and take the feed from the positive?
8. How would you rate the transparency of the all-analog path?

Sorry for all the tricky questions. If the DEQ2496 is calculating (parametric & graphic) filters at different sampling rates then that means a full set of filter coefficients for each rate, which would be quite impressive. The alternative is resampling, which is easy for 48->96 or 44.1->88.2 but more challenging for 44.1->96, which I believe requires a 276 pole digital (interpolating) filter.

Although I'm wildly enthusiastic about the DEQ2496, I do think it's a bit expensive for something which by now could (and should) be part of any mid-market CD player. On the other hand, that may never happen, and if you compare the Behringer to similar products, it looks like an incredible bargain. Maybe Mr. Uli will give me a discount, since if I am not mistaken he owes me a commission on the sale of one supa-fly EQ to a total freq-freak here on Head-Fi.

Once again, thanks gerG for your interesting review.

PS: Any chance of a photo of its gizzards? I need to know if my MSCA Amp is going to fit in there.

BTW, the gaping holes behind the rack mounts can have advantages if you dare to fit a headphone amp inside the EQ. [Check my MSCA link for piccies.]

 

[kwkarth]

Very nice gerG, that eq is still calling my name.

 

[RussKon]

just a word of caution.....

behringer has had many quality control issues over the past 18 months....

i personnally had to return three behringer units for the same customer....

you find the same comments on the pro audio boards concerning behringer products....

make sure you buy from a company with a good return policy!!!!

 

[kwkarth]

Good cousel RussKon, I've seen /heard of QC problems with Behringer too. Nowadays, I personally feel it's good practice to buy everything from reputable dealers. I seem to attract QC problems. If anything can fail, it will when I get it. That said, I've NEVER had any quality problems with my HeadRoom MAX. I can't think of another commercial product/brand that I have not had quality problems with, somewhere along the line including Sennheiser, AKG, Grado, Meier Audio, Sony, Carver, etc. If the manufacturer/dealer is reputable and reachable, they've always taken care of the problem, thank goodness! Sometimes I can fix the problem myself and I do, but often I've had to rely upon the dealer or manufacturer to resolve the problem.

 

[gerG]

Hi gents, I'm back (for a while at least).

Musician's Friend has a 45 day return policy.

So, kwk, have you got one of these toys yet?

Hi j-curve, good to hear from you! Answers (or guesses) based on current limited knowledge:

1. In the mode that I am running it the rate syncs up with the input. 96 khz is the max, so it will make funny noises if you feed it a direct stream from sacd or dvda at 192 khz (I tried). If I plug in a normal CD transport it switches to the lower rate.
2. afaik, the unit runs at whatever the feed rate is. I will have to check to see if streams are converted for calculation.
3. Not know, have to check.
4. Analog is infinite (tee hee). ok, I know that you are refering to the data rate prior to conversion. Again, more digging required.
5. Similar to the above questions. 96khz from what I read.
6. I used a similar approach on the older eq, and didn't like it. It is still a jump from balanced trs to unbalanced rca, so it boils down to a connector preference. Using an adapter also adds another junction. You will just have to start saving for that balanced amp

7. Yes, per the Behringer manual.
8. I haven't tried the analog input of the eq yet. A fair question, but skipping the extra d/a and a/d steps just seemed like the natural way to go. My baseline "analog" loop bypasses the eq altogether.

Very nice work converting the eq to a surrogate amp. I will happily do the endoscopy of the 2496 if you can figure out how to fit a balanced amp inside there. Feel free to use the trs outputs as the balanced headphone sockets. I get giddy just thinking about it.

I will see what I can find out about the internal rates. First, though, I am going to power the toy up and have a listen. Next trip it is going with me!


gerG

 

[j-curve]

Hi gerG, thanks for your response to my numerous questions. I flicked through the Behringer manual once and it has plenty of nice diagrams but very little about how the insides work.

BTW, any attempt to rewire the rear panel plugs as headphone outputs would be very risky indeed. At least in the DSP1124P, those plugs and sockets are mounted directly to a double sided, surface mount PCB. It may be possible to add an extra (shallow) connector on the rear panel though. Good luck drilling the hole for that one!

I'm sure there's plenty of empty space in the DEQ2496 for a headphone amp though.

 

[gerG]

Hi j.

There is not much room in there at all. There is a space that an amp board would fit, but it is awfully close to a fenced structure labeled "high voltage section". Probably not a good environment. The entire front panel is a front plane module, so no access there.

It is such a small package that even with a couple of full sized amps sitting on top it still takes up less airspace than my old Ultracurve. What I really want now is a balanced amp in a matching rack mount case. Anybody want to build me one?

I played with the dbx Driverack over the weekend setting up a speaker system. Although the dbx is a great sounding unit with amazing capabilities, the user interface and flexibility are pathetic compared to the Behringer. I would have swapped them, but I need the crossover function of the dbx. Results were still amazing, but it just took longer than it should have.

I have pics of the Behringer guts if you want them. Drop me an email.


gerG

 

[Steve999]

I just got a Behringer DEQ2496 and love it. There's not much to add past gerGs definitive review. It's difficult to describe exactly how much FUN this thing is!

I would add one thing, the "wide" feature makes a very nice bare-bones tonally neutral crossfeed. It not only expands the stereo image, it can compress it too (crossfeed). The compression settings run in ten steps from 0 to .9, with .9 being quite subtle crossfeed and 0 being mono. I compared the mono to the mono button on my NAD receiver and the tonal balance was exactly the same. Then the stereo expansion steps runs from 1 up to 3, with some interesting effects that would be fun to try with speakers.

It's got a nice dynamic range expander and compressor, too, if anyone is into that type of thing. Nice for Berlioz at 2 AM.

The sound quality seems unimpeachable to me.

Thanks so much to the head-fi community for bringing this product to my attention! It's among the most extraordinary audio products I've ever run across.

 

[Orpheus]

you know, if you guys wanna check this eq out, you could always get it from Guitar Center (who owns Musicians Friend by the way). they offer a complete refund within 30 days, for ANY reason. i've returned many items before... even sealed packages like cables and stuff. they will ALWAYS allow the return. they ask the reason, and i go, "I don't want it." seriously. the only exception are microphones... can't return those for any reason i believe, if the box is opened.

also, never pay the asking price there. their normal price is already lower than competitors, but usually you can get at least 10% off extra. sometimes i've even talked them out of 1/2 their asking price. really.
Quote:

Good cousel RussKon, I've seen /heard of QC problems with Behringer too.

i've owned 3 behringer products... a mixer, and two smaller rack units. and i've not really had any QC issues. one channel did go bad in the mixer, but well, things break down. the major beef with Behringer stuff is that they simply suck. they offer way too many features, look spectacular on the outside, but does nothing well, and sometimes does nothing even good enough.

but it sounds like Greg really likes this unit. so, it's worth a try i say. i mean, you can return it after all. EQ's might be the only thing behringer makes that's good! heh he...

 

[Steve999]

Yeah, Orpheus, that's accurate, the Rockville, MD, Guitar Center is where I got mine. I am absolutely in love with it. This thing is INSANE. It's like something out of some equalizer fantasy dream and then a whole lot more on top of that. FWIW, the sales clerk said they run through them pretty fast, take it with a grain of salt of course, they had 3 in stock.

I had some Christmas money I had been trying to decide how to spend for, well, 3 months now, and finally decided to get the Behringer DEQ2496.

Guitar Center noted the 30-day return policy for the Behringer in a text field on the receipt, as I was quite surprised and a little skeptical about it, but it's real. I got lucky, the sales clerk was extremely knowledgeable and enthusiastic about it and talked to me for quite a while about the features and walked me through my disbelief as he told me everything it could do. They gave me a pretty big discount on the XLR to RCA cables, too, I spent just 4 dollars more than gerG spent on the raw materials for making his cables.

Quote:

Originally posted by Orpheus you know, if you guys wanna check this eq out, you could always get it from Guitar Center (who owns Musicians Friend by the way). they offer a complete refund within 30 days, for ANY reason. i've returned many items before... even sealed packages like cables and stuff. they will ALWAYS allow the return. they ask the reason, and i go, "I don't want it." seriously. the only exception are microphones... can't return those for any reason i believe, if the box is opened. ...it sounds like Greg really likes this unit. so, it's worth a try i say. i mean, you can return it after all.

 

[Orpheus]

Quote:

They gave me a pretty big discount on the XLR to RCA cables, too, I spent just 4 dollars more than gerG spent on the raw materials for making his cables.

actually, they would probably have giving you all the cables for free if you bugged them enough, + a discount on the piece itself. (it kinda depends on how little commission the guy's willing to accept on the deal. different people will give you different deals... and managers can give you the best deals--i used to be friends with all the managers... everytime i walk in, we get right down to business. i say, "what can you give me?" and they know i want the bottom line.)

heh he...

but hey, you guys are kinda getting me curious now. i usually look down on the behringer stuff, but you guys seem to really like it....

have you compared it to other EQ's? how 'bout some higher-end analog EQ's? does it stack up?

 

[Steve999]

I have an old Yamaha analog EQ with a 108 db signal to noise ratio (purportedly) that I had been really happy with.

With the Behringer DEQ 2496 it's a whole different ballgame, though, you get 64 memory presets for your beloved settings and you are making all the changes in the digital domain so you're not adding any noise. You get 10-band parametric EQ (graphically represented) and 30-band (1/3 octave) graphic EQ, and shelving EQ options with which I have custom-made my own treble and bass controls suited for particular headphones (I feel the balance changes from recording to recording so these are extremely handy) in addition to the custom curves you can make.

I also plan on making my own loudness control with the dynamic EQ settings. The real time analyzer is way cool (I had no idea my recordings had so much full-spectrum 20 hz to 20 khz activity in them!), too bad I don't do acid.

I also use the stereo image option for extremely effective and adjustable bare-bones crossfeed on old jazz and Beatles recordings and the like.

As far as sound quality, I just can't find anything wrong with it (and I am obsessively picky) on the best modern jazz and classical recordings.

The real time analyzer is nice too for showing you the noise floor on your equipment, I suspect it would help you hunt down any hum or noise defects in your equipment as well. I was a little surprised at the noise floor on my NAD receiver (-90 db or so from what I can figure).

I had returned a pair of AKG 240S's at Guitar Center and they sold me a guitar for my son at cost (my son was pretty brutal on my guitar) recently so I was feeling pretty grateful, so I didn't bug them about the price. $300 is the going rate on the internet, so that was good enough for me. And I saw similar cables selling for twice the price at B&H photo, and I remembered reading what gerG had spent on the raw materials, so I wasn't in the mood to nitpick, especially since the guy was so helpful and was so insistent about the return policy. It was all a good deal. The thing is a steal at the market price anyway. I've only scratched the surface as to its capabilities. As far as getting the most out of it, gerG is the man.

Quote:

Originally posted by Orpheus but hey, you guys are kinda getting me curious now. i usually look down on the behringer stuff, but you guys seem to really like it.... have you compared it to other EQ's? how 'bout some higher-end analog EQ's? does it stack up?