[LFF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by krmathis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Which is why many of us can not stand new records. Since during mixing and mastering they have a tendency to massively over-use EQ, and hence remove the dynamic range. What Happened To Dynamic Range? Turn Me Up! | Bringing Dynamics Back To Music Loudness war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

First off: Nice graphic! So simple and so true!

EQ usually doesn't kill the dynamic range - it's the compression and limiting that do that. Extreme EQ choices can max out frequencies though. Harmonic exciters can also kill the dynamics and the tone as well.

The bad thing about most people using EQ's is that they are using consumer based products that modify a certain cycle by using shelving controls by which the consumer has no control over the bandwidth of the affected neighboring cycles. In other words, if your using a regular EQ like those on most media players and preamps, you can boost or lower something at 1,000 cycles but you really have no idea how much you are changing the sound at 800 cycles or 1,200 cycles.

To really control the tone of a sound and make it better (or worse), you need an EQ that provides peak controls so you know how narrow or how wide the rolloff is for the frequency you just changed. All mastering EQ's have this ability and is usually labeled "Q". You also need a minimum of 3 parametric bands to really change the sound.

However, don't fear - if your using a regular graphic EQ, use it to make your speakers sound as flat as possible, as anwaypasible suggested. That usually helps a lot! Also, a little bit of gentle graphical EQ can make things a lot more tolerable. Just have fun and make sure you enjoy your music.

 

[MH79]

Quote:

Originally Posted by krmathis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Which is why many of us can not stand new records. Since during mixing and mastering they have a tendency to massively over-use EQ, and hence remove the dynamic range.

A dynamic compressor changes dynamic range, not EQ.

I'm not a fan of over done dynamic compression tho, in the same way I'm not a fan of over done EQ, over done reverb, etc.

So, IMO EQ is fine, as long as it's not over done.

 

[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFF /img/forum/go_quote.gif First off: Nice graphic! So simple and so true! EQ usually doesn't kill the dynamic range - it's the compression and limiting that do that. Extreme EQ choices can max out frequencies though. Harmonic exciters can also kill the dynamics and the tone as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MH79 /img/forum/go_quote.gif A dynamic compressor changes dynamic range, not EQ.

Ok, I stand corrected!
I was under the impression that if you massively boost frequencies using an EQ (ex.+24db) that you kill the dynamic range. But it seems that is called to "max out frequencies", and not "kill dynamic range"..

Either way, I stay clear of equalizers in my path.

 

[ackers07]

Well since starting this thread I've gone through tons more eq settings and even made a .txt file with a long list of them and a small description beside each one to remind me how they make the music sound, e.g 'tinny drums, muddy bass' or 'crunchy guitars, harsh on treble' etc.

Right now I'm using 2/0/0/0/12 on my Clip and it might be one I'll be sticking with now on as it really makes my RE2's sound neutral and uncoloured as opposed to what some of my other 'favourite' eq settings had to offer.

From my observations:
-Try and avoid raising the eq bars up (or down) as much as you can because you'll most likely end up 'over-colouring' (or under-colouring, even) the sound, even though it may sound more attractive (i.e LOUDER!).
-It's best to have as many eq bars possible at flat level - if you feel you have to raise the treble to keep up with the mids you've boosted, then try turning the mids down a touch and keep that treble bar flat. Otherwise you're going into over-coloured sound territory (I've been there and it's not nice).
-I've also found myself many times thinking I've found the perfect eq only to hear it sounds like crap the morning after. Boosting frequencies might make the vocals sound better but then the drums might lose their weight. The most important thing about eq'ing is finding a balanced sound, especially one which works well for ALL your music.
-If you find you have phones which sound perfectly neutral/balanced w/o equalizing then you most likely needn't bother with eq'ing. And consider yourself lucky.

So there you go they're just my experiences with the many hours I've been playing with my Clip's eq... it's almost been an obsession for me, striding to optimize the sound of my RE2's as much as I can before I start looking at stuff like IE8's and Westone 3's. I can't listen to my RE2's w/o eq'ing them, otherwise they just sound crap and muddy and I ask myself what all the hype with them was in the first place. So eq all the way for me (until I get high-end IEM's). As long as eq is done right, it can give much better results.

 

[zunman]

EQ will bring a lot of fun at the same time it also brought the anguish!

 

[xnor]

@ackers07:
Sorry for being a bit harsh here, just my opinion:

Never use an equalizer to amplify certain frequencies except you really know what you're doing. Attenuate the remaining frequencies instead.

I don't know how that Sansa clip eq works, but you said you're using "2/0/0/0/12". This should be "-10/-12/-12/-12/0" if possible. Anyway, I think something's wrong here.

The fiio might be the cause for the muddy sound. It amplifies lower frequencies by + 2.2 dB and attenuates treble by -1 dB. I'd never recommend something like that to anyone.. seriously.
see RMAA results
edit: dunno if the problem is cured with fiio e5

Besides, the RE2 earphones have low impedance and high sensitivity, you should be able to destroy your hearing without an amp.

 

[ackers07]

I'm actually using 2/0/0/3/7 now since that post. More natural sound, better mids, thicker sound. I don't really know what you're getting at with how the eq should be, I tried that eq you said and needed to raise the volume of my Clip by 2 and my amp by 14 to get the same volume as before. It just sounded near the same, if not worse.

edit: Using your technique with my new eq results in -10/-12/-12/-9/-5. I had to boost the volume a lot but it doesn't sound half bad really. Not what I was expecting. So what difference does it actually make decreasing the eq as opposed to raising it?

 

[Bilavideo]

I bought a pair of JVC Marshmallows at Walmart for $20. I didn't expect them to be any good. I just wanted something in my pocket that I could rely on when I didn't have my better earphones with me. As expected, when I got them home, I found the bass to be overwhelming while the treble was anemic. Being the philistine I am, I played with the EQ on my iPod (another sign of my heresy) and simply switched to the Acoustic preset and my Marshmallows brightened up. I later went a little further and clicked the Treble Boost, something I'd have never done with a different/better set of earphones, but the results were quite nice. EQ eased some of the boominess while opening up some of the high end. I don't know how many laws I broke in the process but my crappy $20 Marshmallows now sounded 100% better. They'll never compete with my UM3Xs but so what? For $20? The purists can bite me. I'll take the EQ. A tool is a tool is a tool. If I'd had a better set of earphones, I'd not have needed the EQ, but when life hands you a Marshmallow . . .

 

[Bilavideo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif the MAJOR difference is that sound engineers EQ each individual track, and that's using some top-notch soundboard w/ hardware EQ. plus, it's prior to any reverb/delay/sound effect. some VST plugin in foobar on the final stereo mix will not sound nearly as good IMO...all it will do is kill harmonics. and about mastering engineers, well the tracks are unmastered to begin with! so they apply a good deal of loudness war(to hide the cat's poo, as we say in my country), denoise/etc etc...at this point, they HAVE to EQ and most mastering studios are using either Sonic Solutions or ProTools, which prolly have much more capable EQ sections than your average $50 VST plugin in foobar...plus they use dithering at the final stage, and you're *really* not supposed to do any post-processing on dithered audio.

And therein lies one of the hidden arguments against EQing: So many equalizers are crap. They are made from junk and they sound like junk. If you're going to EQ your music, you need to start with an equalizer that doesn't come out of a box of Cracker Jacks.

 

[leeperry]

this one sounds *amazing* : Sonnox Oxford Plugins