[thomaspf]

For the last couple of years I have been a happy owner of a pair of ER-4S with custom ear molds.

I recently had to experiment with a lot of portable ear and the low efficiency of the Etys basically required turn crank up the volume full scale on whatever equipment I used. My normal monitor speakers are full range so reading about the 5 pro I hoped that this would solve both the sensitivity problem and give me a more balanced bass.

Well, the sensitivity problem is definitely solved. As a couple of fellow head-fiers have been finding out, the pro 5 is very sensitive and will tell you immediately whether you have a noisy source.

There is also plenty of bass but somehow I still prefer my Etys. As a result I looked into the difference in sound between the Etys and the pro 5.

I started with the frequency response curve

and recreated that curve using an equaliser.

Without any eq the 5 pro sound distant and muddy but with the eq active the result is quite pleasing with the pro 5 and much closer to my main speakers and the ER-4S.

My suspicion is that the 5 pro are truly flat and that Etymotic is right about the fact that in ear headphones need to be equalized to create a perceived flat response.

Opinions?

Cheers

Thomas

 

[Jmmmmm]

According to Ultimate Ears, the 5pro's have ~4db rolloff in the high frequencies, compared to...this (the ue5c graph):

What I'm confused about in ety's chart is that our hearing is not flat in the lower frequencies. Are they saying the headphone produces a flat sound in the lower frequencies, or is that graph equalized to our hearing in the lower frequencies? Since they don't equalize the green line in the higher freq's, I'm assuming aren't equalizing it in the lower frequencies. If that is the case, the 'perceived db' line doesn't look accurate, as it would seem to me that there should be much more (perceived) rolloff in the low end. Can anyone clarify that?

 

[thomaspf]

The way I understand the Etymotic graph is that if you equalize the headphone according to the blue curve (with quite a peak around 3KHz) the perception of the listener is that it produces a flat (black) response.

If that assumption is correct, your graph makes a lot of sense. If the pro 5 is indeed flat through the treble than this should indeed sound muffled compared to the Etys.

Now the trick question obviously is, whether the eq is right. Etymotic did a lot of research around this and I assume they did field studies having people determine perceived loudness but I can only guess. To my ears the Etymotics are much closer in response to my room corrected main speakers than the pro 5.

Interestingly enough my HD600 also have a peak around 3000Hz although not quite as pronounced as the Etys which makes for the somewhat more recessed sound.

I tried this with a phase linear eq plugin running in Jriver media center driving an Echo Indigo via ASIO and the equalized pro 5 sounds very nice.

Anyone form Etymotic on the board?

Cheers

Thomas

 

[lee0539]

interesting to see someone who says superfi5pro sounds good when they have been hearing ety's. these two are almost polar oppsites

 

[thomaspf]

If that was not clear from the post. Without eq I do not think the super.fi 5 pro sound good at all, did I say distant and muddy, compared to the Etys. On my personal scale I still like my HD600 better, not to speak of my Monitor 40s ...

However if you have a good source and high quality eq you can make them sound pretty good indeed. You can make them sound very close to the Etys actually. Have you tried this?

I also tried this on my old Dell DJ which has a pretty decent output. When you add a 10db bump around 3K they start sounding pretty decent. It's a bit strange that UE is shipping these as is but may be they had a specific source in mind that has a very non linear output.

Cheers

Thomas

 

[thomaspf]

An interesting link for this topic

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/reference_earphones.htm

He recommends taking the 10db bump around 3Khz at the Etys down by 5db.

Right now I have the Super.fi about 8db up around 3Khz, which combined with the jmmmm's post on the high end roll off makes sense.

Cheers

Thomas

 

[Hoedje]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomaspf If that was not clear from the post. Without eq I do not think the super.fi 5 pro sound good at all, did I say distant and muddy, compared to the Etys. On my personal scale I still like my HD600 better, not to speak of my Monitor 40s ... However if you have a good source and high quality eq you can make them sound pretty good indeed. You can make them sound very close to the Etys actually. Have you tried this? I also tried this on my old Dell DJ which has a pretty decent output. When you add a 10db bump around 3K they start sounding pretty decent. It's a bit strange that UE is shipping these as is but may be they had a specific source in mind that has a very non linear output. Cheers Thomas

Funny, how perceptions of sound differ. I don't own either one of those IEMs (I have Shure E4's). But some would describe "the muddy and distant sound" of the Super.fi pro's as sound with an extended bass response and with a great soundstage.

 

[donunus]

Wondering if anyone here knows why senns shape the sound of their cans pretty much opposite of the etys. The senn 555s for example has a dip at around 4khz in headrooms graphs. They are supposedly diffuse field equalized. Why are IEMs from ety eqd the opposite way. This has always been something of interest to me. I know the senns arent IEMs but they are still feeding sound into the ear at about the same angle so they should be voiced the same to sound accurate, shouldn't they?

 

[setmenu]

One thing to remember when comparing the responses of open phones to the
response of the ER4 phones is that the latter plug the ear canal.
This plugging removes the ear canals natural resonance frequency from the
equation and creates a dip in the perceived frequency response.
I believe the ER4 2-3k response peak is designed to compensate for this loss.


.

 

[donunus]

The linkwitz webpage says otherwise though. from what ive understood, they were saying that the er4s is inaccurate if not eqd

 

[setmenu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus The linkwitz webpage says otherwise though. from what ive understood, they were saying that the er4s is inaccurate if not eqd

I think how well the 'compensation' works depends on one own ear canal
dimensions to some extent.[and sonic tastes/experience]
Personally I find the peak a bit hot most of the time.
I run my own ER4's with a number of tweaks by way of an inline passive filter
network.


.

 

[jpelg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus The linkwitz webpage says otherwise though. from what ive understood, they were saying that the er4s is inaccurate if not eqd

He also says that the Sony EX70's, and Shure E2's are more accurate than the Ety's

.

 

[donunus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg He also says that the Sony EX70's, and Shure E2's are more accurate than the Ety's .

hehehe true. he probably meant in creating that realistic eq balance in those ranges but man!!! e2 vs the er4? isnt that blasphemous hehehehe. I posted a thread asking how good the e2s were after reading that... damn

 

[thomaspf]

The filter on the linkwitz site dampens the peak back to 5db instead of 10db. That is still a sizable peak!

Why on earth would Ultimate ears ship an in-ear headphone that is flat through or even rolls off through this frequency range? I spent month adjusting the frequency response of my main speakers (very slight adjustments compared to this) to flat and the 5 pro definitely sound completely off.

This has nothing to do with bass response or sound stage. Both bass and sound stage are still there if you eq them correctly. You guys should try this.

Cheers

Thomas

 

[mariowar]

Jmmmm, I agree with you. I use my Superfi5pros with an Iriver IFP-799 and the eq is flat but in the highest frequency 14 kilohertz which I set it to +3db !!!!, and they sound PERFECT. This player has up to 15db gain, 3 by 3db.

I really think that UE has to really make an audible difference in their earphones to make them worthwhile. It would not make sense if the superfi5pros sound just like the UE5c....., even if they are all dual driver units. So they mess with the frequencies, turning them down a bit in the cheaper models. Fortunately most of the digital players have eq ,therefore, we are able to compensate them.