End game dac under $3k

[musicmaker]

Headphones: Sony Z1R, Fostex TH900 mk2, Possibly Utopias in the future
Amp: Violectric V281

Looking for a end game dac under $3k. Must be balanced. I value soundstage and a neutral presentation faithful to the source without being analytical and cold if that makes sense. Looking for a full bodied, yet detailed presentation with good dynamics and imaging. Most of my listening will be through a mac (with Audirvana) as a source.

I'm considering the Holo Spring Kitsune tuned (L3), Schiit Yggdrasil and RME-ADI-2.

I already owned a Hugo 2, so looking for the next level in performance. Transportability does not matter to me, nor does a built in head amp. I want something that's worth of feeding the V281.

Would appreciate your inputs. Thanks in advance.

 

[selvakumar]

Go for Burson Audio Play
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/new-burson-audio-play-amp-dac-2w-16ohm-op-amp-rollers-dream.860882/
https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/play/

 

[musicmaker]

Thanks for the response.

The Burson AP does not have balanced outs.
Also the amp part of the dac/amp combo has no value to me as I have a dedicated amp V281.
I'd rather get a unit that does one thing (d to a) and does it wel=l.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Online info makes it seem like the Audio-gd R2R 7 is better than the Yggdrasil and Holo.

But the Chord Hugo 2 measures better than every other DAC on the planet aside from the Chord DAVE and Qutest, so as far as objective performance goes, I don't think you will do better with another company.

Balanced connections only have an audible benefit when the designer skimped on the single-ended circuitry, by the way.

 

[Collusion[FIN]]

But the Chord Hugo 2 measures better than every other DAC on the planet aside from the Chord DAVE and Qutest, so as far as objective performance goes, I don't think you will do better with another company.

Could you provide a link for Hugo 2 measurements?

Also, according to stereophile, Dave's dynamic resolution is ~20 bits ( rounded upwards ), which is less than the state-of-the-art devices have ( 21 bits ).

https://www.stereophile.com/content/chord-electronics-dave-da-processor-measurements

 

[Music Alchemist]

Could you provide a link for Hugo 2 measurements?

Also, according to stereophile, Dave's dynamic resolution is ~20 bits ( rounded upwards ), which is less than the state-of-the-art devices have ( 21 bits ).

https://www.stereophile.com/content/chord-electronics-dave-da-processor-measurements

There are many measurements, but here are some:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cho...official-thread.831345/page-112#post-13342285
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cho...c-official-thread.869417/page-3#post-13966180

As for the DAVE, you should ask @Rob Watts (the designer) for details, because he knows a lot more about all this than most do.

But let's take the quote from Stereophile and examine it:

When I changed the bit depth of the incoming data from 16 to 24 with a dithered tone at –90dBFS, the noise floor dropped by 23dB (fig.5), implying resolution close to 20 bits, which is state-of-the-art DAC performance.

I suspect Stereophile didn't measure things correctly. I know that when Rob was measuring his DACs, he had to get nicer measuring equipment because they actually measured better than the measuring equipment he was using at the time! And look at the following quote. It implies that the DAVE has a lower noise floor than anything else.

The real noise floor at 15 kHz is at -380 dB, which is about 100 trillion times lower noise than conventional high performance noise shapers.

It (along with other Chord DACs) also has zero noise floor modulation, which, as far as I know, has never been achieved with any other DACs.

 

[Collusion[FIN]]

There are many measurements, but here are some:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cho...official-thread.831345/page-112#post-13342285
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cho...c-official-thread.869417/page-3#post-13966180

Those figures are provided by the manufacturer... which means they have to be reproduced by a third party, before they can be taken seriously. No offense.

I suspect Stereophile didn't measure things correctly. I know that when Rob was measuring his DACs, he had to get nicer measuring equipment because they actually measured better than the measuring equipment he was using at the time! And look at the following quote. It implies that the DAVE has a lower noise floor than anything else.

Based on what? Is this your opinion or Rob Watts view on the matter? To my knowledge, stereophile has used the same measurement rig for a long time and successfully measured 21 bit resolution on multiple devices.

And look at the following quote. It implies that the DAVE has a lower noise floor than anything else.
Rob Watts said: The real noise floor at 15 kHz is at -380 dB, which is about 100 trillion times lower noise than conventional high performance noise shapers.

The dacs noise floor isn't certainly at -380db, as mr. Watts states, it is the ( theoretical ) noise floor of the used noise shaper. Which is a totally different thing...

It (along with other Chord DACs) also has zero noise floor modulation, which, as far as I know, has never been achieved with any other DACs.

But there are devices which have even lower measured noise floor. I am not implying Dave's measurements aren't impressive, they are, but calling it a best measuring dac ever is a bit of an overstatement.

 

[Music Alchemist]

But there are devices which have even lower measured noise floor. I am not implying Dave's measurements aren't impressive, they are, but calling it a best measuring dac ever is a bit of an overstatement.

You realize there's more to measurements than noise floor, right? Overall, it is by far the best-measuring DAC, with timing accuracy thousands of times more precise than any non-Chord DAC (nanoseconds rather than microseconds and tap lengths orders of magnitude higher), more advanced noise shaping than anything else, zero noise floor modulation and immune to source jitter (unlike all non-Chord DACs I know of), ultra-low distortion and output impedance, and so many other things.

I'm not sure how 20 or 21 bits is relevant, anyway, because there's no audible benefit to anything over 16 bits.

https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/24bit-vs-16bit-the-myth-exploded.415361

(The DAVE can play files up to 32-bit / 768 kHz...though, based on my knowledge and experience, I'm almost certain they would sound the same if you converted those files to 16-bit / 44.1 kHz.)

 

[Gadys]

T+A DAC8 DSD
http://www.ta-hifi.de/en/audiosystems/series-8/dac-8-dsd/

 

[GU1DO]

what cable you are using with the Hugo 2 ?
i am getting very very good and clean results withe the Chord Signature Tuned ARAY RCA cable (old acrylic version)
(full bodied, yet detailed presentation with good dynamics and imaging) + lower distortion with very good bass

 

[musicmaker]

I made my own with Eichmann bullet plugs and Jena labs cryo 22awg wire. Possibly the best RCAs I have heard.

 

[musicmaker]

Oh and btw, I ended up going with a Holo Sprint L3 Kitsune edition dac .

 

[music_man]

I was kind of looking for the same thing for a particular use. I have so called very high end dacs. including DAVE I do not much care for. I was going to revisit the Directstream after years and many upgrade cycles. Honestly what is looking best to me is the Yggdrasil. I have thousands of files and not one DSD. I upsample to DSD and it sounds worse on any DAC. Playback in native resolution. RME makes good stuff for recording but I would not call that an end game listening DAC. Audio GD so so China even though it is sounding good.

The Yggi aims much higher than it's price point sans DSD and MQA. I do not use those and do not plan to. This is not my main system anyways. So I am having a hard time choosing between the Directstream and Yggi. I know one is Delta Sigma and the other is R2R. One is also Three times the price of the other. Without stepping on the OP's thread, I was wondering what people think about that comparison?

Those are really the only Two I am interested in for this system right now but cannot decide which. I do think with less "features" being R2R the Iggy represents a much better value. I am sure people would buy the Yggi if it was $6K. Not sure which people think provides better sound regardless of PCM VS. DSD. Quite frankly I guess I am growing tired of Delta Sigma. The Yiggi might just be the best value high end R2R. On the other hand the Directstream may sound similar too even though a completely different architecture. One benefit is they keep upgrading it. Hence the possibility of revisiting what is now a completely different DAC from 2015. I am torn on this and cannot A/B.

Any preference between the Two with you guy's? I really want something smaller form factor but do not know of anything in this class. Just Sabre stuff.

 

[jcn3]

Oh and btw, I ended up going with a Holo Sprint L3 Kitsune edition dac .

good choice. you would have been pleased with either the spring l3 or the yggy. both are very good for the price. the bonus with the spring is that it can handle dsd.

 

[Don Quichotte]

How come no one is mentioning the latest Metrum dacs (Onyx and Jade)? Too little known?