[phiemon]

I use Anni with the dap 99% of the time, used Bliss only to see if I am underpowering Anni / Rn6 with N8ii, it’s really not the case.

It’s more resolving to my ear than Rn6 on N8ii just as well.

My only explanation then is that we obviously have different ideas of what "technicality" means and where we focus when listening. Because the difference between the SP3000 CU and N30 in driving Anni alone is clear to me, but then again even with the N30 this is very noticeable in the different gains and voltage settings. Now the N8ii is supposed to have even less power than the SP3000 CU, as far as I know. And I can hardly imagine that the Bliss makes no difference when running Anni. Logically speaking, something is wrong here. A common friend also has the N8ii, Anni and Bliss. He said that the Bliss makes a huge difference.

Anyway, to each his own. It's good to have different opinions. The discussion is not getting us anywhere. I will pass.

 

[Leto Dal]

N8ii got far more punch and meat to the sound than SP3000, especially in power+ mode. Not sure where you got the “less power” from.
SP3000 is known for having weaker amp section than N8ii and dx320 Max, that’s why it’s not recommended for over ears, while you can drive something like Atrium Closed from N8ii comfortably.

I never said it sounds the same as Bliss. It was about underpowering it, which N8ii doesn’t. But yes, a totl full size system usually will sound better than any dap.

In regard of Anni, yeah, doesn’t make much sense to continue the discussion, you clearly perceive it differently from most other listeners. I still suspect it might have to do with burn in like we discussed in watercooler thread and your genre preference.

 

[phiemon]

N8ii got far more punch and meat to the sound than SP3000, especially in power+ mode. Not sure where you got the “less power” from.
SP3000 is known for having weaker amp section than N8ii and dx320 Max, that’s why it’s not recommended for over ears, while you can drive something like Atrium Closed from N8ii comfortably.

I never said it sounds the same as Bliss. It was about underpowering it, which N8ii doesn’t. But yes, a totl full size system usually will sound better than any dap.

In regard of Anni, yeah, doesn’t make much sense to continue the discussion, you clearly perceive it differently from most other listeners. I still suspect it might have to do with burn in like we discussed in watercooler thread and your genre preference.

Great, now I'm considering buying Anni again. I obviously made a mistake by not letting it burn-in at all. I don't actually do that on principle, as I want the IEMs to unfold with me. But what you write must be true somehow, as is usually the case. I gave up on Anni too early.

 

[Leto Dal]

Great, now I'm considering buying Anni again. I obviously made a mistake by not letting it burn-in at all. I don't actually do that on principle, as I want the IEMs to unfold with me. But what you write must be true somehow, as is usually the case. I gave up on Anni too early.

Maybe just drop by on Amsterdam watercooler meetup, there will be couple of people with Anni 23 around, it’s just in a couple of weeks. Anni might just not be for you in the end, we all hear differently and have different genre preferences.

While Anni is a great allrounder, for me personally its tuning and technicalities shine with analog instruments.

 

[MatW]

Whenever we perceive an IEM differently, I think the first question to ask is about the music we listen to, much more than the gear used. Case in point, the RN6. Most people describe it as an allrounder, quite easy to listen to etc. A minority finds it harsh in the upper mids and lower treble, as I did. And in my case, that manifested itself when I used it with metal, which as an aggressive style of music exposes peaks in IEMs more than any other genre. In the case of RN6, it exposed some nasty peaks at 3k and 5k. And indeed, some of the others that found it harsh listened to rock and metal as well. I could have kept the RN6 for other genres but as a specialist it didn’t have enough standout features for me.

But I’ll gladly listen to it again when I get the chance, and I may even add it back to the collection at some point, because clearly it is a good IEM. I can imagine that with eg electronic music the peaks at 3k and 5k lend it a sense of clarity and resolution, leading to @phiemon ‘s perception of it. But as @Leto Dal, I don’t listen to electronic music very much.

 

[slumberman]

Maybe just drop by on Amsterdam watercooler meetup, there will be couple of people with Anni 23 around, it’s just in a couple of weeks. Anni might just not be for you in the end, we all hear differently and have different genre preferences.

While Anni is a great allrounder, for me personally its tuning and technicalities shine with analog instruments.

Yup I’m bringing mine , and it’s actually for sale…time to trim the collection!

 

[phiemon]

Whenever we perceive an IEM differently, I think the first question to ask is about the music we listen to, much more than the gear used. Case in point, the RN6. Most people describe it as an allrounder, quite easy to listen to etc. A minority finds it harsh in the upper mids and lower treble, as I did. And in my case, that manifested itself when I used it with metal, which as an aggressive style of music exposes peaks in IEMs more than any other genre. In the case of RN6, it exposed some nasty peaks at 3k and 5k. And indeed, some of the others that found it harsh listened to rock and metal as well. I could have kept the RN6 for other genres but as a specialist it didn’t have enough standout features for me.

But I’ll gladly listen to it again when I get the chance, and I may even add it back to the collection at some point, because clearly it is a good IEM. I can imagine that with eg electronic music the peaks at 3k and 5k lend it a sense of clarity and resolution, leading to @phiemon ‘s perception of it. But as @Leto Dal, I don’t listen to electronic music very much.

Good example with the Rn6 and upper mids and lower treble. In fact, I find this range absolutely unproblematic and smooth with my music. I don't listen to metal at all, so I can't say. In this respect, I absolutely agree with you that the music plays a very important role.

 

[CharlyBrown]

I’m still loving my SP3000. When I power my Anni with my XD05 pro it sounds not much different than with the SP3000. Most of the times I prefer the SP3000 signature.

And the XD05 has much more power than the NE30. 2x2W@32ohms = more than twice the NE30…

I think either people prefer the sound signature of the higher powered DAP or psycho acoustics kick in like so often in this hobby.

The SP3000 can also drive easy to drive headphones like my Senn or Utopia. Both sound great off the DAP. But it is certainly not powerful enough for hard to drive headphones. But I also doubt you have much fun with an 320max or NE30 and a Susvara.

Long story short, I’m still in the camp SP3k is eanough for IEMs (and certainly for Anni to keep it to the topic) and pro reviewers like headphones.com second my opinion.

 

[phiemon]

I’m still loving my SP3000. When I power my Anni with my XD05 pro it sounds not much different than with the SP3000. Most of the times I prefer the SP3000 signature.

And the XD05 has much more power than the NE30. 2x2W@32ohms = more than twice the NE30…

I think either people prefer the sound signature of the higher powered DAP or psycho acoustics kick in like so often in this hobby.

The SP3000 can also drive easy to drive headphones like my Senn or Utopia. Both sound great off the DAP. But it is certainly not powerful enough for hard to drive headphones. But I also doubt you have much fun with an 320max or NE30 and a Susvara.

Long story short, I’m still in the camp SP3k is eanough for IEMs (and certainly for Anni to keep it to the topic) and pro reviewers like headphones.com second my opinion.

We've been through this before. No psychoacoustics when more quality power is available. It is an objective fact that the frequencies, dynamics and stage are better with more quality power. And we're not even talking about small differences here. I notice this quite clearly when I change the gain levels with the N30 (low -> medium -> high) and even more so when I change the voltage (P+ -> Hyper). Whether you like the sound signature more or not is up to you. And before the question arises: again, it's not about quantitative power, but about qualitative (!) power. On the PC, the Apple USB-C audio dongle has quantitatively more power than the SP3000 CU and that's no joke! But, as expected, the quality of this power is no way better.

 

[CharlyBrown]

I know you hate me now. Don’t

 

[phiemon]

I know you hate me now. Don’t

Not at all. Why should I?

 

[Leto Dal]

While Anni benefits from more power, an IEM will benefit from additional power only so much, havent heard sp3000 with Anni but I doubt it lacks power for it. It was worse for Atrium Closed than N8ii in my case.

Not sure how Plato's cave allegory fits in the topic context, but off topic: Get Tubes.

My out of the cave experience recently was getting Feliks Envy with 300b tubes, absolutely mindblowing if you have totl over ears. I heard many tube and higher end solid state amps, but good implementation of 300b is an eye opening experience.

 

[phiemon]

Not sure how Plato's cave allegory fits in the topics context, but off topic: Get Tubes.

Those who are in the cave believe they recognize the truth by seeing the shadows. The one person who climbs up and walks out of the cave recognizes the actual truth: that the shadows are only shadows and do not represent truth in themselves. When he returns to the others in the cave, he tries to convince them that what they see are only shadows and that the real truth is out there. After all, he is not believed by these people and he is taken for a fool.

 

[Leto Dal]

I know Platos cave allegory lol, I was wondering how it fits here.

 

[phiemon]

I know Platos cave allegory lol, I was wondering how it fits here.

Those who see the shadows are those who believe that amp power makes no difference at all or that there is no such thing as qualitative and quantitative power. But those who climb up understand that amp power does make a difference and that there is a distinction between qualitative and quantitative power. Wenn the person returns to the others, he will be considered fools and conceited.

Better now?

Since @CharlyBrown first spoke of "myths", I responded with an "allegory".