[Effusion]

Very interesting and great find! I'm not entirely sure, but it makes sense. The output mode, Triode versus UL at least, does make a difference with the tubes though for sure. Even though there seems to be an overall general sound to UL, I found that several tubes preformed quite differently than they did in Triode, so I'm sure Pentode mode will also be doing something to them as well. I will definitely have to spend some time with the 6L6GC in Pentode mode soon as well. As far as good, but cheaper, NOS 6L6GCs, I've always liked the GE ones, which are usually a bit cheaper. I've tried the RCA Blackplate ones, but they were just a bit too thin overall for my tastes, bass was really tight and punchy with great highs as well, but the GEs were just more full, with stronger bass and more bloom. However, many consider the blackplate RCAs as being the best in the line. GE re-branded the 6L6GC many times for other retailers/manufacturers, so you might be able to find an off-brand GE 6L6GC for cheap. The way to tell if they are GEs is there is a dot pattern on the glass somewhere.

Yeah, a new DAC will definitely change up the sound, so you'll have to let us know how it works out. As far as comparing to 300B directly, might be difficult, but a 300B amp would work. The newer 8600 Elekit amp is a 300B and sounded very nice at last year's RMAF.

Looked briefly into the Sophia EL34 and they look very nice, not cheap at all, but I'm thinking they may just be a bit cleaner/clearer than most EL34s, also with more life to them. Just going off what others have said compared to the SED/Svetlana ones that I have tried. The EL34 is a great tube and many here have enjoyed it over the years in this amp. They are very musical and natural and in my opinion are great for any type of music where you want an emphasis on the mid-range or highs. Before spending a ton on them, it might be worth it to try some cheaper ones first, just to get an idea of the general sound. If you think you could resell the Sophias easily, might just want to go with them off the bat and then decide if they are worth it or do what you want them to in the end.

Just like everything in audio, tube rolling is quite the journey with this amp and often what you start with is not what you end with. With so many options for this amp, it can be quite daunting at times, but just remember that if you don't like the sound today, a different tube tomorrow may change everything.

 

[dawktah2]

I just started part 3 of "Understanding Vacuum Tube Amplifier Schematics" by BlueGlow Electronics on YouTube and now I think I need to re-open my unit and take a photo to make sure my coupling capacitors are in the right orientation. I haven't reached a point yet where inflow/outflow is explained in comparison to +/- so does anyone know the easy answer to this?

 

[sunneebear]

@dawktah2
I also have the MrSpeakers Either and Aeon and my favorite headphone amp for awhile now is still the TU-8200. I have gone back to the stock tubes in UL setting because to me they are lush while still being very balanced. I really liked the Psvanes but the sets that I got did not last that long and they are pretty pricey. The combination of my source, the Questyle QP1R, the stock tubes in UL and the MrSpeakers headphones seem to work very well for me. Other tubes color the sound even if they are good but I want to stay with what I think is a well balanced sound. When I ordered my amp from Victor I did go all out and asked for the best of everything he had. I am really glad I did that.

 

[dawktah2]

@dawktah2
I also have the MrSpeakers Either and Aeon and my favorite headphone amp for awhile now is still the TU-8200. I have gone back to the stock tubes in UL setting because to me they are lush while still being very balanced. I really liked the Psvanes but the sets that I got did not last that long and they are pretty pricey. The combination of my source, the Questyle QP1R, the stock tubes in UL and the MrSpeakers headphones seem to work very well for me. Other tubes color the sound even if they are good but I want to stay with what I think is a well balanced sound. When I ordered my amp from Victor I did go all out and asked for the best of everything he had. I am really glad I did that.

Thanks so much, I think what ultimately will govern any more of my tweaks will be how Chord Qutest will sound.

 

[dawktah2]

I AM SO CONFUSED! From reading schematic, I am truly a novice, and reading an earlier post by LucidDreamer the Mundorf capacitor goes pin 1/6 to short inflow wire. I have installed mine and have cut wires but I thought I followed this. After looking at photos none are the same. I suppose labelling could change but which end has what appears to be a ring under the jacket, the foil?

My install, C9 and C10 are the same, C3 and C4 are opposite direction to each other. All my capacitors the wire leads and labels matched:

So:
C3 ring foil right
C4 ring foil left
C9 and C10 ring foil down?






Other installs:

 

[lucidreamer]

My capacitors orientation was correct, so was Dimu's. Check my previous posts, I explained why after doing some research.

 

[JayKay47]

One of the pics is my incorrectly mounted caps, that have since been mounted properly. The last pic is Dimu's, and are the correct orientation.

On another note, I replaced the stock interstage cap in my Eddie Current Aficionado with Jupiter Copper Foil caps, and WOW, they are awesome. I may replace my TU-8200DX's Mundorf's with Jupiters...

 

[dawktah2]

Thanks everyone, I need to reverse C3 and C4

 

[dawktah2]

Ok, let's give it a listen!

 

[Dimu]

The biggest improvement in sound comes with good tubes. And different tubes sound differently. For example KT88/TT-21 results in very punchy lows. EL12 spez is very musical. The problem is that those good tubes are disappearing. E80CC drivers used to be plentiful. Now supply has dried up. You can still buy them but nowhere like couple years ago when big lots were sold off. GEC KT88, KT66 and Tungsol 6550 are very difficult to find now. EL12 spez used to be easy but no more. Cossor 807 is pretty rare now too.

The point is this- supply of good tubes is finite, it is dwindling, and for many tubes it is close to extinction. Grab some while you can. You'll be able to buy good caps or DACs in 10 years. Not so with good tubes!

This amp is designed for rolling tubes- you only need two drivers and two output tubes, you get auto bias and you can throw pretty much anything at it. Some tubes won't last because of low grid voltage rating (which is why I chickened out on trying WE 350B) but the usual options will work just fine. It is a shame to not be able to find awesome tubes to try and enjoy in this amp!

I was thinking of building a 211/845 tube amp however I can't find any of those tubes any longer and whatever is available is limited and priced way too high. And realizing that TU-8200 kit will go the way of those NOS tubes soon I got myself a second TU-8200 box- will build it when I feel like having another perfect little amp My amp is ridiculously pleasing to my ears! Right now it is running TT-21 and E80CC.

Regarding DACs- I feed the amp with Gungnir Multibit. I bolted it under my desk so that I don't even see it. It is powered 24/7 and other than from the awesome sound I would not know that it exists. I am not going back to delta-sigma DACs.

 

[dawktah2]

The biggest improvement in sound comes with good tubes. And different tubes sound differently. For example KT88/TT-21 results in very punchy lows. EL12 spez is very musical. The problem is that those good tubes are disappearing. E80CC drivers used to be plentiful. Now supply has dried up. You can still buy them but nowhere like couple years ago when big lots were sold off. GEC KT88, KT66 and Tungsol 6550 are very difficult to find now. EL12 spez used to be easy but no more. Cossor 807 is pretty rare now too.

The point is this- supply of good tubes is finite, it is dwindling, and for many tubes it is close to extinction. Grab some while you can. You'll be able to buy good caps or DACs in 10 years. Not so with good tubes!

This amp is designed for rolling tubes- you only need two drivers and two output tubes, you get auto bias and you can throw pretty much anything at it. Some tubes won't last because of low grid voltage rating (which is why I chickened out on trying WE 350B) but the usual options will work just fine. It is a shame to not be able to find awesome tubes to try and enjoy in this amp!

I was thinking of building a 211/845 tube amp however I can't find any of those tubes any longer and whatever is available is limited and priced way too high. And realizing that TU-8200 kit will go the way of those NOS tubes soon I got myself a second TU-8200 box- will build it when I feel like having another perfect little amp My amp is ridiculously pleasing to my ears! Right now it is running TT-21 and E80CC.

Regarding DACs- I feed the amp with Gungnir Multibit. I bolted it under my desk so that I don't even see it. It is powered 24/7 and other than from the awesome sound I would not know that it exists. I am not going back to delta-sigma DACs.

Dimu,

In the same vein is the same thing happening to the 300B, 12AU7 and 12AX7 tubes? I am considering after successfully building the 8200 that I would give the 8600 a go.

How I got here to this forum: I was about to purchase a 2A3 driver tube headphone amp based on manufacturer reputation without having put any long hours into a tube headphone amp other than my WA8 which is a transportable unit and not a desktop. What are you really getting from units 3x to 10x the cost??? So far with only upgrading to NOS RCA 12AU7 I am very impressed. I am very curious what type of sound the Elekit 300B kit will produce. I have to do some research since I plan on having these amps for a while and without tubes...

--Chris

 

[Effusion]

Couldn't agree with @Dimu more, that is the reality nowadays and with many amps, more every day.

Unfortunately there is still only a few really great options in new production overall as well, but that seems to be changing in recent years, at least somewhat, with more focus on quality than cost by many more, and with several companies leading the pack. Although I have never owned one, as I have never owned an amp that uses them, the 300B is very well regarded by many and I have only heard them briefly a few times. My understanding was that it is harder and harder to find really good cheap NOS 300Bs anymore as well though, which is the unfortunate trend... I remember years ago the NOS WE 300B being rather pricey as well and not really plentiful. Also, as with a lot of the stock power tube options in this amp, the 8200, especially those used commonly in guitar amp gear currently as well, there are also new production 300Bs for the 8600 out there as options. Unfortunately while I can't comment on really any of them, new nor old, I'm sure they all sound different and some are made better than others in general.

As far as 12au7s and 12ax7s, I don't seeing them as much of the problem as others are, at least right now. While yes, some, especially rarer versions/brands, do go for quite a bit at times, there are still lots of NOS options and also quite a few new production out there as well in comparison, however they could always be cheaper. I believe the 12ax7 is still more popular, at least in certain instrument and audio gear, than the 12au7s generally are, as the x's not only have different specifications, they are also said to be generally a bit more punchy, forward, and with higher gain, if even merely by what is caused with those different limits. @Dimu has done some mods to run other options entirely than the 12au7 family and with really great results, so there are options there as well. I would still say that the little 8200 has more easier options in this regard, that is the auto-bias and particular tube design, than most. As Dimu stated, it was like this amp was made for rolling tubes, so easy, so many types potentially...

I was also able to spend some time with the excellent 8600 at RMAF last year at Victor's table, here are my impressions at that time. Although do note that I generally thought the unit needed a bit more time to settle in, however, what I heard was really nice and as good, if just different, than my 8200 at its best many times. I'm excited to spend some more time next year with it as well, so I'm sure I'll have more to comment on then. Victor was running new production 300Bs I believe, however I don't remember the brand. I kept imagining what a really nice set of WE's or others would sound like while listening as well, also thought it would sound amazing with some really nice single drivers in a controlled room...

 

[Dimu]

Dimu,

In the same vein is the same thing happening to the 300B, 12AU7 and 12AX7 tubes? I am considering after successfully building the 8200 that I would give the 8600 a go.

WE 300B is long gone. If you find anything cheaper than $3000 PER TUBE consider yourself lucky. This was the first tube to disappear completely.

Quality 12AX7 is much more scarce than 12AU7 which is rather plentiful. 12AX7 is high-mu tube used in different applications than 12AU7. TU-8200 is not designed for 12AX7, don't try it. And biggest improvement to TU-8200 sound comes from swapping out 12AU7 for 12BH7 or better yet E80CC. Read up on it in this thread, don't just do it because those tubes have twice as big plates as 12AU7 and require more heat to stimulate emissions over larger cathode.

Instead of building other amps I stuck to this little gem, made it excellent, made sure I have lifetime supply of awesome tubes and then got a spare amp kit
In my mind you get better results by focusing on a good platform like this and making it perfect rather than trying to screw around with multiple amps.

 

[Sir Gaben]

The WE 300B will be produced again and cost a bit over 1200 dollar a pair...

http://www.westernelectric.com/products/300b.html

 

[Dimu]

The WE 300B will be produced again and cost a bit over 1200 dollar a pair...

http://www.westernelectric.com/products/300b.html

That would be cool if they really released it and made it as good as the original. Still, for $1299 per matched pair you can buy more than one very good NOS output pairs. But if those tubes are really good I'll be building TU-8600 with some serious upgrades... That would be fun to compare EL12 spez and TT-21 in TU-8200 to WE 300B...