[Patrick82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot Was my explanation clear?

Yes, that explains why orchestral music sucks with headphones, soundstage is too narrow and almost fits inside my room (3 meter wide). Trance music has a huge soundstage (200 meters) and vocals are recorded with one microphone. It sounds more like real life than orchestral music.

 

[Patrick82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot If I remember correctly, an orchestra is capable of producing 100dB at full fortissimo. That's not quite the threshold of pain, but it sure isn't comfortable! Obviously, that's WAY too much for normal home listening.

If someone has blasted his ears at real life orchestra at 100dB volume and then comes home to compare cables at 70dB, would he hear a difference?

 

[JohnFerrier]

Sennheiser has published two different specifications for the loudness level of the HD650 at 1V and there is 12dB difference. Twelve db is huge.

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 Yes, that explains why orchestral music sucks with headphones, soundstage is too narrow and almost fits inside my room (3 meter wide).

The problem isn't the narrowness of the soundstage, it's the width between your ears.

See ya
Steve

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnFerrier Anyway I've adjusted my listening level to stay within the guidelines for safe listening (which is weighted by duration and level).

Have you found anything about a difference between enclosed headphones and speakers in open air? I wonder if the range of safety is different when the ear cups are forming a seal around the ear, or perhaps directionality of sound pressure...

See ya
Steve

 

[JohnFerrier]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot Have you found anything about a difference between enclosed headphones and speakers in open air? I wonder if the range of safety is different when the ear cups are forming a seal around the ear, or perhaps directionality of sound pressure... See ya Steve

The headphone manufactures probably have industry guidelines that define such things, but I'm not sure where to find a copy. AKG or Beyerdynamic references performance standards in some of their spec sheets. I can't find the reference number right now. I've wondered if the loudness specification changes if the sound source (transducers) is within an inch of one's ear. I don't know if that is why Sennheiser increased the rating by 12 dB. Avoid liability for hearing damage.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 Yes, that explains why orchestral music sucks with headphones, soundstage is too narrow and almost fits inside my room (3 meter wide). Trance music has a huge soundstage (200 meters) and vocals are recorded with one microphone. It sounds more like real life than orchestral music.

I don't agree with you on this one...especially electrostatic systems are really good for classical music and for detail retreval in that section!

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 Yes, that explains why orchestral music sucks with headphones, soundstage is too narrow and almost fits inside my room (3 meter wide). Trance music has a huge soundstage (200 meters) and vocals are recorded with one microphone. It sounds more like real life than orchestral music.

I don't agree with you on this one...especially electrostatic systems are really good for classical music and for detail retreval in that section!

 

[Riboge]

Just thought I'd throw in a few items I've accumulated in my head over the years about the topic of the last dozen posts:

The decibel was defined as the unit of just noticeable difference on average among people ("jnd" to earlier researchers) in sound level based on some studies done many many years ago (don't recall the specifics). So it would be expected that some few people can hear even less as Patrick claims and some need a little more to hear the increment.

Speaker manufactures at least formerly often put in their manual the ratio of speaker separation to the distance from listener to midline between speakers they recommended (what Bigshot was describing). I have seen either 1:1 or 1:1.5 recommended.

120db is usually cited medically as the level definitely causing damage for any meaningul length of time. Pain starts in around 110db, obviously, then, lower for some people since these are average values. Symphony orchestras do get to 100db and could possibly get higher. I don't find full volume like this uncomfortable but thrilling, but we all know that a mix of pleasure and a bit of pain is usually what is most exciting.

 

[JohnFerrier]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot I have great respect for the engineers at Bell Labs in the 20s and 30s. The more I read about their experiments, the more I realize how much has been ignored or forgotten. See ya Steve

I just found 30 pages of insight from Bell Labs circa 1934.
Symposium on Auditory Perspective

This is close to what I've been looking for, but I'm still searching.

-

From the preface: "In 1964, Paul Klipsch reprinted this paper. Here is his introduction – I cannot say it better: The following paper is a reprint of one of the most important papers in the field of audio. Fundamentals do not change. The laws of physics endure."


.

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnFerrier I just found 30 pages of insight from Bell Labs circa 1934. Symposium on Auditory Perspective

OOoooo! Oooo! that's my meat! Thanks for the link.

Steve

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot The problem isn't the narrowness of the soundstage, it's the width between your ears. See ya Steve

You haven't seen my BIG head.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot OOoooo! Oooo! that's my meat! Thanks for the link. Steve

That paper is about perception of sound in a certain place and how to let everybody hear the same...

 

[Patrick82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline Lol, back to the future.....papers of 1929...don't you think they can do more now?

Skeptics can't learn new information because they aren't open-minded enough. He has made thousands of posts telling about his old-school knowledge. It's like saying airplanes can't fly, it's all placebo.

 

[JohnFerrier]

"...the fantasy of audible differences continues despite the fact of audibility thresholds."