Eek... I was a cable believer, until...
post-779807
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radrd

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Welcome to my world.

I did the exact same test you did with some cables that were supposed to sound very different from one another (Nites/$100 silvers) and they sounded exactly the same. I tried fast switching and I tried slow switching. It didn't matter, there was no difference. I now don't believe that expensive interconnects hold any value for me. Maybe someone with golden ears can hear the difference, but not this sucker.

Two different people told me I should upgrade my gear in order to hear the difference.
 
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post-779853
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Edwood

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lan
Do you have power conditioning? I find it's easier to detect differences when you have clean power.

I also don't like swapping back and forth real fast. I think the ear needs a small reset time to readjust.

Why don't you try these cables on another system?



Yes, power helps and hurts.

I don't agree with letting your ears rest. By then you have to rely on your short term memory, and then it's more perception by then. It does help to do both. But if I had to pick one, I'd go for the rapid switch method.

-Ed
 
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post-779880
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greenhorn

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman
...you cannot imagine how depressed I am at the moment. I easily have $2,500 invested in interconnects and... well, this is bad news.


Hey, bangraman... if this helps... I am ready to replace you all that stuff with... (...drums...) *brand* (yeah!) *new* (wow!) *stock* (cool!) *cables* - for free!!!

I'll even go the extra mile and pay for both my and your shipping costs.

'coz I'm a nice guy.
 
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post-779971
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Ctn

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I think Rapid switching is the best method.
The brain is good at noticing instant changes. The brain has very bad fuzzy memory.

Finally a few people actually have the same findings as me *SHOCK HORROR*


http://www5.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=70105

Quote:

Do you have power conditioning? I find it's easier to detect differences when you have clean power.


I do have very clean power from what I can tell.

Quote:

I also don't like swapping back and forth real fast. I think the ear needs a small reset time to readjust.


I disagree here. I think if you let the ears/brain adjust, you'll memory of what the sound is goes all fuzzy/blured. The longer you listen to the current cable, the more your memory of the previous cable goes all fuzzy and the more likely you will "hear" the difference. Assuming our brain acts like a nn.

Rapid switching (say 5secs each) keeps both memory relatively "current".

Quote:

Two different people told me I should upgrade my gear in order to hear the difference.


Me too. I'm thinking my gear is way better than yours buddy.
 
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post-780012
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ampgalore

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The only way to scientifically test this is by performing a double blind test. However, since this method of testing is not allowed here, rapid switching will have to do.

I am actually quite glad to hear that there is no detectable sonic difference between good quality cables and more exorbitantly priced ones. As this further strengthed my conviction that I will never spend a couple hundred dollars on cables.
 
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post-780016
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ampgalore

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And come to think of it, electrons are electrons, conductors are conductors, once you reach a certain point of good quality, what else can you possibly gain? They are basic conductors after all.
 
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post-780042
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lan

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood
I don't agree with letting your ears rest. By then you have to rely on your short term memory, and then it's more perception by then.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctn
I disagree here. I think if you let the ears/brain adjust, you'll memory of what the sound is goes all fuzzy/blured. The longer you listen to the current cable, the more your memory of the previous cable goes all fuzzy and the more likely you will "hear" the difference. Assuming our brain acts like a nn.


I guess our methodology and reliance on memory works different. I don't need to swap back and forth between pizzas (or sex partners
) to determine which one was better. Hearing is just another experience and the cable which is better to my ears will sound more natural. Swapping back and forth too fast is unnatural experience. You can't get used to any of the gear.
 
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post-780047
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fewtch

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lan
I guess our methodology and reliance on memory works different. I don't need to swap back and forth between pizzas (or sex partners
) to determine which one was better. Hearing is just another experience and the cable which is better to my ears will sound more natural. Swapping back and forth too fast is unnatural experience. You can't get used to any of the gear.



You could always get used to the gear first, then perform the tests later.
 
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post-780055
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Ctn

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lan
I guess our methodology and reliance on memory works different. I don't need to swap back and forth between pizzas (or sex partners
) to determine which one was better. Hearing is just another experience and the cable which is better to my ears will sound more natural. Swapping back and forth too fast is unnatural experience. You can't get used to any of the gear.



It's how we detect changes. It's like trying to detech small changes in the different tiff pictures. It's very hard to look at a pic for 10mins then switch pics then find the changes and repeat. It's easier to detect the changes if you rapidly switch. The changes will emerge out of how our brain work.

I guess our methods are different.

You dont let someone inflict 10 mins of pain on you before you go ouch ? hehe jk.
 
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post-780074
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Ctn

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Eep cant resist....bad ctn !

You'll probably wont live long if you did rapid switching test for sex partners :>
 
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post-780078
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gpalmer

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctn
You'll probably wont live long if you did rapid switching test for sex partners :>


Although I've seen movies like that...
 
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post-780088
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Ctn

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Quote:

Originally Posted by gpalmer
Although I've seen movies like that...



I cant believe you said that, Im in stiches atm.
 
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post-780849
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Calanctus

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If you look at how professional audio reviewers (yes, there are a few really good ones, among all the chaff) review gear, you will notice that they typically spend days or weeks with a component before making a judgement as to whether they really like the sound.

Why would they do this, I wondered? Then I tried the process with 2 different preamps, one tube and one solid state. The quickest I could do the switching was about 5 minutes, and the results were very inconclusive. I just couldn't really decide which one I liked better.

So I left the tube preamp in my system for weeks, listened to a lot of stuff, and eventually switched back to the SS preamp. Result: NOW I could immediately hear a difference. (The tube gear is up for sale; I'm keeping the SS preamp).

I'm not sure exactly what neurological or psychological process is at work here, but I know what I heard. You can say "You should hear this, you should hear that", etc. etc. all you want, but the facts are that prolonged auditioning showed differences that quick switching failed to do.

yes, all the other disclaimers apply as well: You have to have a good enough system to show differences, good power, good recordings that you are very familiar with, etc., but time does make a difference.

This is not to say that I CANNOT hear differences with quick switching--sometimes I can--but the results are far more satisfying to me with a prolonged audition.
 
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post-780890
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lan

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Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch
You could always get used to the gear first, then perform the tests later.


What I'm saying is that you can't switch too fast since your ear/brain needs some time to readjust to the swap. That getting used to is like spending a few minutes with each cable before swapping. It doesn't really matter if you spent a few hours before hand getting to know the equipment. Any comparision gets lost in that inital transition period.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctn
It's how we detect changes. It's like trying to detech small changes in the different tiff pictures. It's very hard to look at a pic for 10mins then switch pics then find the changes and repeat. It's easier to detect the changes if you rapidly switch. The changes will emerge out of how our brain work.

I guess our methods are different.

You dont let someone inflict 10 mins of pain on you before you go ouch ? hehe jk.



I don't consider sight the same as some of the other senses because taste, touch, and hearing can be related to pleasurable experiences. For comparing pics, going back and forth quickly is the preferred method. For things that are experiences, which are more analagous to taste, touch, and hearing, switching too fast doesn't work in my view.

Take bike riding. The transition period is like mounting the bike. There's no way you can make a good comparision just in that time frame. You have to ride the bike around for a little.

Take beer comparision. Going back and forth between 2 beers will ruin the taste of each. You won't be able to appreciate each in its entirety.
 
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post-780957
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PinkFloyd

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ampgalore
And come to think of it, electrons are electrons, conductors are conductors, once you reach a certain point of good quality, what else can you possibly gain? They are basic conductors after all.


You gain the placebo effect from looking at the funky, uber expensive cable you've just bought and Kudos from other head-fiers when you tell them how much it cost.. that can go a long way to make something sound good and there's nothing wrong with that.
 
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