[LugBug1]

I'll start by saying... For me to sell my beloved HD800 then there has to be something wrong with the world. Or I've found something better.

Well it's both.

The thing with SQ is that it is a constant learning experience. Both subjectively but also as we continue to be impressed or unimpressed by new technicals and designs. The HD800 has stood the test of time and deservedly so. Especially for classical music lovers like myself; the soundstage, imaging and general (or apparent) colourless tuning. I've owned them for approximately 4 years (bought twice). Nothing would sway me to sell or save up for something that might be better especially when they are still the staple for reviewers to compare to.

I've had the Edition X v2's now for something like 4 month. I wrote a review and stated that I was impressed but wouldn't be selling my HD800. Time has told me many things about the sound I have with these Hifiman headphones in comparison to the almighty kings from Sennheiser. I'll list them thus;

1. The HD800 are not neutral at all... This is a bit unfair because I think most of us know this already. They have an unnatural peak and lower dip in the trebles that either pleases or hurts. For me it has alway pleased. But I often wondered why my ears complained when I listened to my HD600 straight after. My ears were adjusting to the missing information from the HD800 and so making the HD600 sound a little "etchy" (not a real word... Don't care)

2. Soundstage is subjective as bass treble mids etc.. The HD800 paint a massive picture in front of you - Great! for large canvases of Opera, ambient music etc. And it can be learned to be liked for even intimate ensembles. Nice big space. Great. But a soundstage that meets you in the middle - focuses your attention on the things the producer wanted you to? Now that is harder. Probably impossible, but what I'm saying here is - the lowly HD600 betters the HD800 here in all seriousness.

3. "Speed" is something that none of the flagship Senns are up to compared to planars. This is a fact. Decay, should not be confused with glare/ringing etc.

The HEX fix all the above problems to my ears. And they round it off with a smoothness and air that is quite something. If anyone can tell me vocals sound more natural on the HD800 - I disagree. Anyone tell me that a cello sounds more "life-like" I disagree. Anyone tell me that strings (and for me this has been a bane in my life to find a sound that sounds right) sound better on either the HD600 or HD800 I disagree. Layering and detail, again if anyone can listen to a complex orchestral piece and find more detail (apart from the highlighted top of the pops treble) with the HD800 I disagree. BRASS!!! I can listen to the Hex without wincing in advance with familiar recordings like I do with both the other cans I've mentioned.

The only time I may prefer the HD800 over the HEX is when I'm listening to a recording that does not exhibit treble peaks and revels in the large soundstage - choral works for example. But this is strictly recording quality permitting. I will still be missing some treble information and texture.... But the huge soundstage outweighs the negative here.

I could go on all night... But I'm going to stop with a few final thoughts: For twenty plus years we've appreciated the HD600 for its neutrality and general listenability. Imagine a headphone that fixes its little shortcomings and makes everything a little bigger and a LOT better?

Let me put it another way. Buy an HD600 then buy the gear needed to squeeze every ounce of goodness out of it (you will be looking into many thousands of dollars) OR, Buy an HEX and plug it into your phone. Thank me later

Even better, you will already own a good DAC - otherwise you have no business even looking into the High-End forum (how dare you!!), either plug them into the inbuilt hp out- or buy a clean SS amp (class A of course darlings) for a couple of hundred bucks. And again thank me later. Sell your huge ferrari amps! (Treat the Mrs to a holiday... While you enjoy your new headphones)

Natural - neutral (apart from a little extra lower bass - which to be fair we all want!) - smooth - great soundstage - pretty much perfect trebles - a midrange that invites you into its bedroom for truffles and Chardonnay - Bass that refuses to enter the mids unless invited, but gently rubs your testicals when the show gets steamy (sorry) . etc etc etc.

Thats why

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

I'll start by saying... For me to sell my beloved HD800 then there has to be something wrong with the world. Or I've found something better.

Well it's both.

The thing with SQ is that it is a constant learning experience. Both subjectively but also as we continue to be impressed or unimpressed by new technicals and designs. The HD800 has stood the test of time and deservedly so. Especially for classical music lovers like myself; the soundstage, imaging and general (or apparent) colourless tuning. I've owned them for approximately 4 years (bought twice). Nothing would sway me to sell or save up for something that might be better especially when they are still the staple for reviewers to compare to.

I've had the Edition X v2's now for something like 4 month. I wrote a review and stated that I was impressed but wouldn't be selling my HD800. Time has told me many things about the sound I have with these Hifiman headphones in comparison to the almighty kings from Sennheiser. I'll list them thus;

1. The HD800 are not neutral at all... This is a bit unfair because I think most of us know this already. They have an unnatural peak and lower dip in the trebles that either pleases or hurts. For me it has alway pleased. But I often wondered why my ears complained when I listened to my HD600 straight after. My ears were adjusting to the missing information from the HD800 and so making the HD600 sound a little "etchy" (not a real word... Don't care)

2. Soundstage is subjective as bass treble mids etc.. The HD800 paint a massive picture in front of you - Great! for large canvases of Opera, ambient music etc. And it can be learned to be liked for even intimate ensembles. Nice big space. Great. But a soundstage that meets you in the middle - focuses your attention on the things the producer wanted you to? Now that is harder. Probably impossible, but what I'm saying here is - the lowly HD600 betters the HD800 here in all seriousness.

3. "Speed" is something that none of the flagship Senns are up to compared to planars. This is a fact. Decay, should not be confused with glare/ringing etc.

The HEX fix all the above problems to my ears. And they round it off with a smoothness and air that is quite something. If anyone can tell me vocals sound more natural on the HD800 - I disagree. Anyone tell me that a cello sounds more "life-like" I disagree. Anyone tell me that strings (and for me this has been a bane in my life to find a sound that sounds right) sound better on either the HD600 or HD800 I disagree. Layering and detail, again if anyone can listen to a complex orchestral piece and find more detail (apart from the highlighted top of the pops treble) with the HD800 I disagree. BRASS!!! I can listen to the Hex without wincing in advance with familiar recordings like I do with both the other cans I've mentioned.

The only time I may prefer the HD800 over the HEX is when I'm listening to a recording that does not exhibit treble peaks and revels in the large soundstage - choral works for example. But this is strictly recording quality permitting. I will still be missing some treble information and texture.... But the huge soundstage outweighs the negative here.

I could go on all night... But I'm going to stop with a few final thoughts: For twenty plus years we've appreciated the HD600 for its neutrality and general listenability. Imagine a headphone that fixes its little shortcomings and makes everything a little bigger and a LOT better?

Let me put it another way. Buy an HD600 then buy the gear needed to squeeze every ounce of goodness out of it (you will be looking into many thousands of dollars) OR, Buy an HEX and plug it into your phone. Thank me later

Even better, you will already own a good DAC - otherwise you have no business even looking into the High-End forum (how dare you!!), either plug them into the inbuilt hp out- or buy a clean SS amp (class A of course darlings) for a couple of hundred bucks. And again thank me later. Sell your huge ferrari amps! (Treat the Mrs to a holiday... (while you enjoy your new headphones)

Natural - neutral (apart from a little extra lower bass - which to be fair we all want!) - smooth - great soundstage - pretty much perfect trebles - a midrange that invites you its bedroom for truffles and Chardonnay - Bass that refuses to enter the mids unless invited, but gently rubs your testicals when the show gets steamy (sorry) . etc etc etc.

Thats why

They’re good headphones but I disagree about the bass quantity. They had too much mid bass for me and my ears, and it definitely bled into the midrange. I know the HEK is much more expensive, but that headphone is simply magical. It’s as close to perfect in timbre and balance that I’ve ever heard. It is comfortable and has an awesome soundstage as well. I say save up a little more money and go straight to an endgame headphone and get the HEK and never look back.
But if you truly want best bang for your buck, I say grab a 400i for under $250 right now.

 

[LugBug1]

They’re good headphones but I disagree about the bass quantity. They had too much mid bass for me and my ears, and it definitely bled into the midrange. I know the HEK is much more expensive, but that headphone is simply magical. It’s as close to perfect in timbre and balance that I’ve ever heard. It is comfortable and has an awesome soundstage as well. I say save up a little more money and go straight to an endgame headphone and get the HEK and never look back.
But if you truly want best bang for your buck, I say grab a 400i for under $250 right now.

I've got the 400i

Just want to stress that I'm talking - "High end" bang for buck my friend

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

I've got the 400i

Just want to stress that I'm talking - "High end" bang for buck my friend

Got it

 

[ra990]

Yea, agree with most of what OP wrote. I just sold my HD800S and all my other headphones. Only have the HEX v2 being driven by Woo Audio WA8 - it's a very satisfying combo. The HE1000V2's I tried were even better, no doubt about that - but in my opinion, not worth the premium in price over the HEX.

 

[Greggo]

I am quite possibly moving in the same direction, but for a few different reasons:
1) I am selling all my current gear and getting out of the head-fi hobby so to speak, moving into pro audio and at the same time just need to simplify and streamline my life in general, but still going to own one or two good headphones.
2) I wanted to love the HD800S, but just can't get past the generally thin sound signature and also just tired of having a bunch of headphones that I love for some things but don't really like for general long term listening.
3) I am now going to focus only on high end headphones that don't need a high end amp to drive them, something that does well on a phone, really well on a decent dac/amp or pro sound computer audio interface headphone section, and thus is convenient for me in any situation and even though it may still scale on better equipment, gets me most of the way there on very modest equipment that has even more modest amp power.
4) That leads me here... and to the Focal Clear as well. My new criteria for headphones going forward will be reasonably low impedance, reasonably high efficiency, fantastic sound signature free of treble peaks or glare/grain, and quite happy with a decent DAC and typically weak built in amp section.

Anyone heard both HEXv2 and Clear ? Any other high end or modest cost high performance headphones you would add to the list? For example, I love the DT1990 Pro and ATH-R70x, but they only put a smile on my face when I am driving them with a liquid crimson. When I drive them on Roland Rubix44, not so much... So even though I am upgrading to a modified PreSonus Quantum2, I am thinking about the HEXv2 and the Clear as the top two cans to stay focused on.

Do you HEXv2 owners enjoy these cans on a variety of modest sources or do you find yourself needing something needing a more dedicated head-fi rig to stay satisfied?

 

[GodsInHisHeaven]

To be honest I would not bother with the HE 1000, as they are really just a small increment of what the HEX have to offer.

For me it was the other way around with the HD 800 and the HEX v2
I love my Edition X V2 driven from my Audio GD NFB 28 and give them a good bass boost EQ APO.
They have been my daily driver for the last 10 months.... just lovely.

After having owned a lot headphones (HD 558, HD 650, HE 400S, HE 560, K712 Pro, HD 800 and Stax L700) and having heard others like the Focal line I have a decent idea about the market...
My HD 800 were sold last year, as I found them to thin and unpleasant. They are certainly awesome in soundstage, layering and details, though.

Then around two month ago I got the itch to own a HD 800 again after having seen a very good deal (550€) on Ebay for a 3 years old used pair in mint condition.
After I got them, I replaced the used pads and headband with new, got a beautiful balanced cable from Forza Audioworks, installed the dupont resonator and played around with my EQ ...
Giving them a huge bass bost, a bump in the 1,5 kHz region and a -1db in the 6 kHz region made them then the HEX in my eyes.

I would recommend* getting a used cheap pair of HD 800 and restoring them any day before getting the HEX v2. *only if have no problem using an EQ though
Just my 2 cents.

 

[Hedonism]

I am quite possibly moving in the same direction, but for a few different reasons:
1) I am selling all my current gear and getting out of the head-fi hobby so to speak, moving into pro audio and at the same time just need to simplify and streamline my life in general, but still going to own one or two good headphones.
2) I wanted to love the HD800S, but just can't get past the generally thin sound signature and also just tired of having a bunch of headphones that I love for some things but don't really like for general long term listening.
3) I am now going to focus only on high end headphones that don't need a high end amp to drive them, something that does well on a phone, really well on a decent dac/amp or pro sound computer audio interface headphone section, and thus is convenient for me in any situation and even though it may still scale on better equipment, gets me most of the way there on very modest equipment that has even more modest amp power.
4) That leads me here... and to the Focal Clear as well. My new criteria for headphones going forward will be reasonably low impedance, reasonably high efficiency, fantastic sound signature free of treble peaks or glare/grain, and quite happy with a decent DAC and typically weak built in amp section.

Anyone heard both HEXv2 and Clear ? Any other high end or modest cost high performance headphones you would add to the list? For example, I love the DT1990 Pro and ATH-R70x, but they only put a smile on my face when I am driving them with a liquid crimson. When I drive them on Roland Rubix44, not so much... So even though I am upgrading to a modified PreSonus Quantum2, I am thinking about the HEXv2 and the Clear as the top two cans to stay focused on.

Do you HEXv2 owners enjoy these cans on a variety of modest sources or do you find yourself needing something needing a more dedicated head-fi rig to stay satisfied?

Posted this in the HEX thread a while back:

Tonality/presentation: The HEX sounds more spacious/airy, laid-back, smooth, and effortless. Clear has a dense, upfront, energetic, and dynamic presentation. I'll come back to this later.

Bass: HEX has more quantity, but both pairs are close to my definition of neutral. Clear seemed to have tighter cleaner bass with more perceived impact/attack. HEX seemed rounder and more textured which contributes to the sense of laid-back presentation that HEX v2 gives off. HEX seemed to do better with 'audiophile' style acoustic jazz and classical, whereas the Clears fared better with rock, electronic, and other fast-paced genres.

Mids: HEX definitely has a smoother rounded presentation to it with a decent dosage of warmth. Clears sounded subjectively more 'neutral' and 'transparent'. Small nuances were more apparent on the Clears (though still clearly audible with the HEX, it's just that the Clears push those micro-details more upfront). Vocals and instruments sounded more 'clear' and 'life-like' with the Clears, whereas the HEX made them sound more seductive and 'organic'.

Treble: More quantity on the Clears, lending to a brighter presentation. More fatiguing in the long run, but probably lent a hand to the greater perceived sense of details. Didn't have an issue with sibilance or excessive peaks however.

Soundstage/imaging/separation: HEX has a larger soundstage in all directions. There's more space between each instrument, allowing them to 'breathe'. In comparison, the Clears have a denser presentation in the sense that there's less space between the instruments, although separation and imaging were still top notch. The Clear's headstage is a lot more upfront, making every instrument and voice sound much closer to you than the HEX. Someone mentioned that the HEX v2 presented itself closer to a 2ch stereo setup than a typical pair of headphones, and I'm inclined to agree. You're further away from the stage, and allows for the music to 'breathe' before reaching you. I don't know, it's hard to describe lol. I like it though. I wonder if this contributes to the softer edge to the music that HEX v2 exhibits.

Attack/dynamics: Clear wins. Clear is a punchier pair of cans. More fatiguing too though; can't have it both ways. HEX is softer/rounder sounding and more laidback.


Again, for my tastes, I prefer the HEX v2 due to the 'longterm satisfying soundsig'. I also greatly prefer the soundstage presentation of the HEX but YMMV. Those that listen to 4-man rock groups, chamber music, modern pop, etc. might not care for the soundstage, and even prefer a more upfront presentation due to the immediacy of the sound. Not me though.

But those that find the HEX v2 not engaging enough due to the rounded softer nature of its presentation would do well to try the Clears. Alternatively, those who think that the HEX sound a bit too romantic or smooth in the mids should also give the Clears a chance. 'Vivid" and "uncolored" are words I would use to describe the Clears.

 

[Greggo]

Thanks @Hedonism ! I appreciate the comments and digging it up for me, I need to go through that thread as well. Sounds like the only solution is to buy both. I will probably get the Clear first since it sounds like the right choice for both home studio work and audiophile listening, then add the HEXv2 next for a warmer sound and probably better extended listening sessions. Going to keep my Oppo PM-3 for office and travel, and sell all my other headphones. Getting back down to just 3 nice headphones will be a relief and help keep me focused more on the music and less on the gear insanity. Having all 3 ready to perform really well on just about any source/amp is a big plus for me as I shift gears.

 

[Justin0505]

I really enjoyed your review, Lugbug1 -some very entertaining writing. I also enjoyed all the other perspectives and comparisons here and I'm wondering how you/anyone else in this thread would compare the ergonomics / long-term physical comfort of the HD800/HEX v2/ FClear. I've got pretty large ears (hd650's just don't quite fit) and I've come to realize that minor differences in sound quality might not be as important as major differences in physical comfort when selecting a pair of cans that I intend to wear for many hours per day.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

To be honest I would not bother with the HE 1000, as they are really just a small increment of what the HEX have to offer.

For me it was the other way around with the HD 800 and the HEX v2
I love my Edition X V2 driven from my Audio GD NFB 28 and give them a good bass boost EQ APO.
They have been my daily driver for the last 10 months.... just lovely.

After having owned a lot headphones (HD 558, HD 650, HE 400S, HE 560, K712 Pro, HD 800 and Stax L700) and having heard others like the Focal line I have a decent idea about the market...
My HD 800 were sold last year, as I found them to thin and unpleasant. They are certainly awesome in soundstage, layering and details, though.

Then around two month ago I got the itch to own a HD 800 again after having seen a very good deal (550€) on Ebay for a 3 years old used pair in mint condition.
After I got them, I replaced the used pads and headband with new, got a beautiful balanced cable from Forza Audioworks, installed the dupont resonator and played around with my EQ ...
Giving them a huge bass bost, a bump in the 1,5 kHz region and a -1db in the 6 kHz region made them then the HEX in my eyes.

I would recommend* getting a used cheap pair of HD 800 and restoring them any day before getting the HEX v2. *only if have no problem using an EQ though
Just my 2 cents.

Couldn’t disagree more. The HEK V1 and V2 are leaps and bounds better than the HEX. They’re much better with identical gear and scale miles better with higher end gear. For the price point of the HEX V2, you may as well buy a Sennheiser 800S, which is much better. After listening to the HEK for a while, I couldn’t be more disappointed with the HEX. The HEK is sonically better in every way. The only downside is they’re harder to drive.

Just my opinion, but I’ve heard both side by side and even compared them both to the Sennheiser 800S, which used to be my favorite headphone. I’d take the HEK V2 over any headphone out there right now, but I wouldn’t even take the HEX over the 800S let alone either version of the HEK.

 

[ra990]

Funny, I tested them side-by-side and compared with my 800S, I would take either over the 800S any day and would obviously put the HE1K ahead of the HEX, but I didn't find the difference to be as drastic as you seem to imply.

 

[SilverEars]

I think there are at least two types of listeners. Ones that can handle more treble aggressive headphones like HD800 or Utopia, and others that type of sound is too much and looking for the more laidback sound. I can handle bright iems, but treble hot headphones are just too much.

HD800 isn't neutal or balanced. S is quite similar.

We got to get out of the misconception that boosted treble is resolution. It's basically analgous to oversharpening visually.

 

[Hifiearspeakers]

Funny, I tested them side-by-side and compared with my 800S, I would take either over the 800S any day and would obviously put the HE1K ahead of the HEX, but I didn't find the difference to be as drastic as you seem to imply.

Fair enough. I guess it depends on the music you prefer. To my ears, the HEX V2 has too much mid bass that bleeds into the other frequencies and masks lots of detail. That coupled with the rolled off treble makes it sound too dark. With bass heavy music like hip hop and rap, it wouldn’t matter. But I listen to a lot of progressive rock, folk, and acoustic and those genres suck on the HEX. The 800S is slightly too bright for me at times, but it’s detail retrieval and wide soundstage make it head and shoulders better than the HEX, in my opinion of course. The HEK has even better treble control than the 800S and also has better bass and mids and almost the same size soundstage. All that plus lower distortion and equal comfort, makes it my favorite headphone I’ve ever owned. But I will always have a soft spot for the 800S. Different strokes for different folks but I’ve rarely ever been as disappointed as I was after listening to the HEX V2. Maybe if I had heard it before I ever heard the HEK or 800S I’d have a different opinion about them. But I just feel like it’s a league below them. But it is a good headphone and there’s not many sub $1000 headphones I’d take over it. But I just don’t feel like it compares well against flagships like the 800S, HEK or Utopia.

 

[ra990]

Fair enough. I guess it depends on the music you prefer. To my ears, the HEX V2 has too much mid bass that bleeds into the other frequencies and masks lots of detail. That coupled with the rolled off treble makes it sound too dark. With bass heavy music like hip hop and rap, it wouldn’t matter. But I listen to a lot of progressive rock, folk, and acoustic and those genres suck on the HEX. The 800S is slightly too bright for me at times, but it’s detail retrieval and wide soundstage make it head and shoulders better than the HEX, in my opinion of course. The HEK has even better treble control than the 800S and also has better bass and mids and almost the same size soundstage. All that plus lower distortion and equal comfort, makes it my favorite headphone I’ve ever owned. But I will always have a soft spot for the 800S. Different strokes for different folks but I’ve rarely ever been as disappointed as I was after listening to the HEX V2. Maybe if I had heard it before I ever heard the HEK or 800S I’d have a different opinion about them. But I just feel like it’s a league below them. But it is a good headphone and there’s not many sub $1000 headphones I’d take over it. But I just don’t feel like it compares well against flagships like the 800S, HEK or Utopia.

Well after spending a few weeks with my HEX V2, they have developed a rattle and are going back. I got a good deal on a pair of HE1K V2, so they're going to be my main cans again as soon as they arrive. I'll let you know if my opinion has changed about the HE1Ks not being leagues better than the HEX. I pretty much listen to the same type of music you do, but maybe it was my HEX/WA8 combo that made them sound so great to me. It was a really nice pairing while it lasted

What DAC/AMP are you using with your HE1K?