[feenjeen]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post, but I've been spending a lot of time at the forum of late. Thanks to everyone for their helpful advice!

Anyway, I'm a long time musician, was into car audio, but now I don't own a car, so I've moved on to portable audio (cos I walk everywhere).

A while ago I bought a new portable cd player (couldn't afford a decent mp3 player at the time), and eventually got a bit sick of the lack of isolation, and therefore lack of bass. (Remember I had a subwoofer in my car so I just can’t live without good bass now).

The stock buds that came with my Panasonic CD player don’t actually sound too bad. The do lack bass - but, when you press them into your head a little bit - effectively creating a seal – the bottom end really does come out. I like this a lot, but obviously I’m not going to walk around pushing the phones into my ears all the time.

So, I thought that buying a pair of in-ear phones would give me the same effect (loud punchy bass). Got me the E3’s – had no problem whatsoever creating a seal – but the whole bass thing just isn’t what I thought it would be. Not really punchy at all, not even close to the “pushed into my head” Panasonic buds. Quite disappointing.

I then looked at the E3’s and the Panasonic buds and said to myself: “Hangon, these E3’s are really really small – Could they ever move as much air as a pair of phones with speakers that are twice as big?”

Logic to me says no. Am I wrong?


Is my problem due to a lack of amplification?
How do I get more thumping bass? Are cans more the way to go?

Cheers

 

[wackos]

I think full sized cans will undoubtedly have more bass than canalphones. That said I personally don't think my e3c's lack bass, but maybe I am just used to the sound signature. I think they definitely do benefit from some EQ, and I use the latin or jazz settings on my iPod. I've had a number of different "good fits" with the shure tips. I find I get more bass using the medium tips than the small tips. Both seem to fit fine, though the mediums felt a bit too big at first. So I guess... play around with EQ if you can, play around with the tips some more, and if you really need isolating canalphones with lots of bass, go for the e2c's?

 

[PsychoZX]

Sounds like you should have picked the e2c.

 

[catscratch]

I think the Sony MDR-EX71's are going to be the cheap canalphone of choice for big, thumping bass. Maybe the Sharp MD-33 as well, but I have no experience with these. The Shure e3c has pretty good overall sound quality, but it's not a very bassy plug.

In general, you can get very good bass with canalphones, but other than the lower-end models from Sony, most single-driver armature-drivered canalphones don't have very powerful bass. "Standard" dynamic canalphones like the Future Sonics EM3 can have good bass, as can electrostatic canalphones (!!!) like the Stax SR-001 Mk II. But to get really big bass out of armature drivers, you need to get into dual-driver models like Shure e5c or Westone UM2, and beyond that into custom-molded 2 and 3 driver models. There, one driver handles the very low frequencies, while the other driver handles everything else. The Ultimate Ears UE10 Pro has 3 drivers and 2 of them are devoted to handling low frequencies!

Amplification helps but it won't change the basic sound signature of the portable unless it's a very high-impedance/low sensitivity model like the Etymotic ER-4S. There, amplification is a must. For Shure e3c, it's only optional.

If it's within the budget, the Shure e5c will give you enough bass and then some. If you want to try a portable headhone, try the Sennheiser HD-25 (not HD-25SP). You can also try the Future Sonics EM3/Sennheiser IE3 (same phone, different label), which should have a nicely bassy sound. Stay away from Etymotic ER-6i and ER-4P, which, while exceptionally clear and detailed, don't give you a whole lot of bass. You can even go custom-molded with something like the Westone ES2, which while very costly, will be a good investment. Not only will they give you good sound quality, they'll protect your hearing while playing live thanks to their excellent isolation.

 

[MKAL]

go e2c

 

[Jmmmmm]

the e3c's do not have the bass you are looking for, but it isn't because of canalphone design, just their design.

I recommend the md33's for you (over the ex71, e2c, and others) unless you want to get into the big bucks ($300+)

 

[Aptmunich]

You might want to look into getting a DAP with a decent equalizer...

The e3c's bass can really be thumping when equalized properly...

Or try the Sony ex71's as others have suggested - the canalphone equivalent of car rocking subwoofers...

 

[PsychoZX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmmmmm I recommend the md33's for you (over the ex71, e2c, and others) unless you want to get into the big bucks ($300+)

I could not agree more with that statement.

 

[Ugusensei]

I say give them a bit. If you're just using canalphones for the first time, they take a while to get used to. I used to own a set of the Sony EX71s. And used to enjoy that big bloated bass until I came here

Then I got a set of the E3cs. Bought them last week. The sound signature took a bit getting used to. They're not going to have the bass thump you're looking for, especially coming from car audio. Heck I can't imagine letting bass waves like that flow directly into my ear drums

I mean, isolating canalphones + big bass would be a little dangerous when you're wandering around outside. Even when there's no bass, I've almost been bowled over by passing cyclers, cars, etc...

If anything, my experience with the E3c have been one of discovery. Things like "wow I didn't know that instrument was in there," or "hey my music sounds a hell of a lot better, more detailed." Things like that.

Seriously, you do have a good set of canalphones. Spend a bit more time with them

 

[countach]

My E3c have exactly the perfect bass.

I can not explain how big it is. Its perfect. Like the composer wanted to be. (In fact, E3c does not eq the bass, is a question of respect the original)

I worked as a sound technician assitant some years ago and I know what I want to listen. I like bass like hell, I love suwoffers and big thumps and kicks. I whould be very happy with the bassy EX81 as I am with my Senn HD25-13 (600 ohms).

But with E3c I am deligted. They are fine and i've discovered another pleasure: a frequency area I never made so much attention to: The mids.

Believe me. The E3c are the ones. No eq needed at all.

 

[VicAjax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by feenjeen ...Remember I had a subwoofer in my car so I just can’t live without good bass now...

sounds to me like you're not necessarily looking for "good bass" so much as "lotsa bass."

if you must stick with canalphones, you probably are best off with the ex71 (i personally don't like them, but they have big, fat, messy, chocolate-on-your-face bass).

if you want decidedly better sound that's still dark, i'd suggest shure e2c.

if price isn't as much of a concern, go with the shure e5c... it's THE basshead canalphone.


BUT... if you're not restricted to canalphones, i'd recommend:

Koss PortaPro - open can, but lots of fun and TONS of bass (too much for me, but it's a basshead's wetdream).

Sennheiser PX100 - also open. still dark and somewhat boomy, but more controlled than the PP, my overall favorite budget headphone.

Senn HD280 - great price for a closed can, lots of bass. big and goofy-looking though.

Beyer 250-80 - i haven't heard these, but they get good press round here.

 

[MetalManCPA]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch In general, you can get very good bass with canalphones, but other than the lower-end models from Sony, most single-driver armature-drivered canalphones don't have very powerful bass. "Standard" dynamic canalphones like the Future Sonics EM3 can have good bass....You can also try the Future Sonics EM3/Sennheiser IE3 (same phone, different label), which should have a nicely bassy sound.

Nice to see I'm not the only one mentioning Future Sonics EM3's. For the $99 I spent, these canals have great range and really good bass for what they are. They will never rival good full-sized cans, but I too like bass, and I'm very satisfied. I added the Pocket Amp2 V2, and the bass jumped up even more. And finally, for my ear size, I purchased the XL ETY yellow foamies to get the best tight fit, and I have now found my portable heaven.

 

[Oski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by VicAjax sounds to me like you're not necessarily looking for "good bass" so much as "lotsa bass." if you must stick with canalphones, you probably are best off with the ex71 (i personally don't like them, but they have big, fat, messy, chocolate-on-your-face bass).

That's exactly what I was thinking too. I really like my E3c and think it produces a good punchy bass that is controlled and balanced. But Feenjeen is interested in having very pronounced and boomy bass, like the subwoofer in his car or pushing earbuds against the ear. In this case the EX71 may be the ticket.

 

[feenjeen]

Hey, thanks everyone for their responses -

Maybe I wasn't super clear when explained my whole "love of bass" thing. Obviously a car stereo setup with sub-woofer generally gives a big-boomy sound.
But what I'm really looking for in headphones is that well defined, loud, thuddy, tight sound that you get from the kick drum in rock music. And it still needs to be IN YOUR FACE.
(Sorry if I gave the wrong impression at first!)

All that said, I guess the same advice still applies I guess. ie. 2 drivers equals "better quality" bass. If only I had the cash for the E5's.
Just out of interest though, what particular differences are there in bottom end sound say between a canal-phone like the E5's, and a decent pair of full-headphones?

A final word on the E3's...
Last night I actually did a bit of a test – plugged them into the headphone jack on my old Kenwood hi-fi.
It has a 5-band EQ, so I was able to turn up the bass (100hz slider, not really ideal, but it worked) and lower the other frequencies.
Anyway this made a huge difference, so I'm thinking an EQ may be the way to go. Any portables have a decent EQ setup built in?

Cheers

 

[wanderman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by feenjeen Any portables have a decent EQ setup built in? Cheers

can anyone say karma...say it with me now KARMA....

This is the undisputed king of eq for daps imho, and you can pick up these for cheap. If you want something smaller I would try the rio carbon and another cheap portable solution.

My iriver on the other hand was desgined for the e3. All you can eq is bass and treble.