E-Stat Summit: Hifiman Shangri-La vs. Stax SR-X9000 (vs. HFM Shangri-La Junior)
Dec 6, 2022 at 1:28 PM Post #121 of 221
I also echo with the softness, which is shakingly apparent when ab with Shangrila SR in many systems. Yet I found using marbles-based isolation system in conjunction with silver coated PC on T2 with dynamic sounding Russian tubes could effectively and foundationally address that.

As the building and isolation material employed by the HE-1 amplifier, marble does not just to make it look pretty but also comes with underlying sonic reasonings and benefits.
 
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Dec 6, 2022 at 1:29 PM Post #122 of 221
Yep — agree also. And from what I've heard so far, the Susvara would be the one for me. When I sold my Susvaras I wrote:

If I could only have one headphone, it would be the Susvara.

Instead of that nice simple setup, I have a CFA3, an Eksonic T2 and six different headphones (Abyss 1266 Phi TC, Stax X9000, Meze Empyrean, RAAL requisite SR1a, Grado RS2E, Audeze XC). What. A. Hobby. (/Problem.)

I need to put my head inside a Shangri-La next. Even with that, though — I expect to love it! — I'm not sure it IS possible for me to have one pair of headphones. There are times that the best thing on my bonce is the Empyreans. And I already know that they sound nothing like any of my other gear.

For me, headphones is an AND thing, not an OR thing. (Not the case with speakers, but that's for pretty obvious physical reasons.)
 
Dec 6, 2022 at 6:07 PM Post #123 of 221
STAXus Interruptus or: A Funny Thing Happened on the Road to E-Stat Nirvana

I recently sold my STAX X9000 in response to a WTB post on its dedicated thread. I wasn't actively shopping it, or even thinking about doing so, but I've started selling off some assets to raise cash for major improvements (new roof, solar installation) to our house next year. That, coupled with the reality that my Susvara was getting a majority of my head time lately, resulted in the decision to sell the X9000 when the opportunity arose. Here's the (somewhat long-winded) background in case anyone's interested:

My wife and I went on a cruise during the latter half of September. Before we left, I'd owned the X9000 for a couple of months, and it had supplanted the Susvara as my "go to" headphone for nightly listening sessions. I was smitten with its technical prowess and capacious soundstage. I had already ascertained that the Susvara was the superior headphone for most rock music, but over the last year I'd been more focused on jazz and (experimental) electronica, with some classical and vocal-centric music also in the mix, all of which played to the X9000's strengths.

In my ideal world, I would have a single reference headphone that would excel with any type of music. Accurate timbre (fidelity) is my key criterion, followed by bass extension/linearity and soundstaging. I seek the most convincing illusion that I'm listening to live music, or at least full-range speakers. Prior to my entrance into the realm of estats, the Susvara was that headphone, but the even greater resolution of estats seduced me into thinking/hoping there might be an even higher peak attainable. When I ordered the X9000, I thought there was a reasonable chance it would make the Susvara redundant. Within a few days of its arrival, though, I realized the Susvara was still essential for rock. Nonetheless, the X9000 was just capable enough there that, along with its glorious staging/imaging prowess and resolution, I quickly anointed it the new overall #1.

So after a couple of months of owning the X9000, we leave for the cruise, and the only headphone I pack is my SONY WH1000XM4 (noise-canceling). I want to travel light and plan on spending a lot of time lounging by the ship's pool anyway. My Galaxy S10 phone will be my (Bluetooth) DAP. In spite of my love of high-end audio, I'm not a snob about it, and the sound of the SONY is perfectly acceptable for recreational listening. One day as we sailed along, I was reading Head-Fi for entertainment, and the remaster of Pink Floyd's Animals record became a topic. I don't listen to Floyd much anymore, but I've always really liked that album, and decided to check out the remaster. Even on the SONY cans, the increase in clarity over the original master was obvious, and beneficial to the enjoyment of the record, I thought. From there, I decided to listen to Floyd's previous album, Wish You Were Here, my favorite of their post-Syd Barrett oeuvre, and perhaps ironically, inspired by Barrett. Maybe it was just the circumstances (sipping a drink by the pool on a Mediterranean cruise), but even on mediocre headphones, the album had never moved me as much as on that day. Gilmore's guitar playing on Shine On is so phenomenal in terms of its emotive power and lyricism, and at that moment it just made me feel like a teenager again, connecting with it for the first time. And when the album was over, I decided it'd be the very first thing I listened to when I got home... on the X9000! Unimaginable sonic glory awaited, surely.

After a looooong day of flying back to California from Tunisia, I crashed immediately, and was still pretty jet-lagged the following day. Nonetheless, I'd been looking forward to hearing Shine On since that day at the pool, so after unpacking, the time was at hand. I let the system (mostly tube preamp) warm up for about fifteen minutes, donned the X9000, and hit play. The track starts very softly with some multi-tracked synths establishing a spacey ambience. Just after the 2-minute mark, the guitar enters with some plaintive, plucked phrases immediately evoking a longing and pathos that always cuts through my core........... except.......... at that moment I was feeling nothing. OK, give it a little time, maybe my hearing/brain is off-kilter from the previous day's arduous journey. At 3:55, Gilmore introduces a 4-note motif. The motif is repeated several times, and then the bass and drums crash in at the 4:30 mark to provide propulsion and rhythmic counterpoint as Gilmore solos in and out masterfully for the next several minutes. Roger Waters' loping, contrapuntal bass is the foundation of the track from that point on, but lack of impact on the X9000 stripped it of its usual emotional gravitas. I was hearing all of the notes with perfect clarity, but I felt like a detached, casual observer of a recording. There was a lack of drama and immediacy.

It was time for a sanity check. I switched over to the Susvara, and played the track again from the beginning. The first thing I noticed was more of a feeling of presence. The synthesizers had gained tangibility. Along with this came an immediate sensation of emotional connectedness that had been missing for me with the X9000. When the guitar entered, its bite had been restored, and with it, the ability to engage my emotions. Likewise, when the rhythm section crashed in, it was properly climactic and weighty. I listened to the rest of the album, as I had been anticipating for many days, and realized that I had come home in more ways than one. While I had already come to the conclusion that the Susvara was superior to the X9000 for all types of rock, the size of the chasm was now laid bare.

I listened to a lot more music that day, of various genres, alternating between the X9000 and Susvara. The perception that music was more palpable through the Susvara was consistent no matter what I listened to. I realized that I value this much more than the X9000's slight advantages in resolution and soundstaging. And with that realization, a short love affair was over, and a much longer one was resumed.

To be continued...

I agree with you @BassicScience as well as @eskamobob1 @Chefguru and @number1sixerfan ... I have similar impressions. I think in the end, this leads each of us to make different decisions based on priorities, budget, mood etc. For myself, at the moment I use the Susvara nd X9k with the expectation of getting a difference presentation as well as strength. For me, this translates often to genre (love the X9k with jazz and classics; love the Sus for vocals and acoustics). Long run, TBD..
 
Dec 6, 2022 at 6:28 PM Post #124 of 221
Other than its innate easygoing tuning, soft sound in most cases is a typical sign of lack of driven dynamics, if you ask expert veteran audiophiles.

As evidence, X9000 does not sound soft with amplification as Grand Cayman and T2 with right configurations. Therefore X9000, just like other high impedance headphones, needs great quality and quantity of power, especially considering its thick and big membranes.

Yes many electrostatic energizers could drive X9000 loud, but they couldn’t provide the authority and dynamics that X9000 demands. In terms of being power hungry, I would say X9000 is the electrostatic equivalent of Susvara, due to its driver design.
 
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Dec 6, 2022 at 7:06 PM Post #125 of 221
it's funny, x9000 used to be the best new headphones in the wolrd (or best modern headphones), now under serious attack.

if, what if, the price tag set to $2999 in the first place, there won't be a ton of complaints right now. even with modest amp, that's stax $9000
business as usual
 
Dec 6, 2022 at 7:13 PM Post #126 of 221
it's funny, x9000 used to be the best new headphones in the wolrd (or best modern headphones), now under serious attack.

if, what if, the price tag set to $2999 in the first place, there won't be a ton of complaints right now. even with modest amp, that's stax $9000
business as usual
I don't think anyone is attacking it. No headphone is perfect with/for everything/everyone.

I believe it the true test for headphones is the test of time. Do they stay relevant for years after their release in their respective price category. Susvara, Utopia, Sennheisers are great examples. Too early with the X9K.
 
Dec 6, 2022 at 7:14 PM Post #127 of 221
it's funny, x9000 used to be the best new headphones in the wolrd (or best modern headphones), now under serious attack.

if, what if, the price tag set to $2999 in the first place, there won't be a ton of complaints right now. even with modest amp, that's stax $9000
business as usual
There is no serious attack under niche circles, it's hobbyist enthusiasm, scrutiny, and hyperbole which price plays a very minimal relevant factor.
 
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Dec 6, 2022 at 7:18 PM Post #128 of 221
it's funny, x9000 used to be the best new headphones in the wolrd (or best modern headphones), now under serious attack.

if, what if, the price tag set to $2999 in the first place, there won't be a ton of complaints right now. even with modest amp, that's stax $9000
business as usual

It's not an attack at all. It's just not that serious. Almost everyone has said that they still enjoy the headphone and also you also rarely see these come up used, so a ton of people are keeping/enjoying them. They're still the most technically proficient headphone I'm aware of under $7k by quite a large margin, but that's just imo. But it has a very unique presentation, isn't perfect and it still may not be for everyone, and that's ok. It just isn't that serious.
 
Dec 6, 2022 at 7:24 PM Post #129 of 221
Other than its innate easygoing tuning, soft sound in most cases is a typical sign of lack of driven dynamics, if you ask expert veteran audiophiles.

As evidence, X9000 does not sound soft with amplification as Grand Cayman and T2 with right configurations. Therefore X9000, just like other high impedance headphones, needs great quality and quantity of power, especially considering its thick and big membranes.

Yes many electrostatic energizers could drive X9000 loud, but they couldn’t provide the authority and dynamics that X9000 demands. In terms of being power hungry, I would say X9000 is the electrostatic equivalent of Susvara, due to its driver design.
If anything I’d think the Carbon would be the more dynamic amp. The T2/megatron/GC amps are similar in their actual output current to the headphones, they just have a different sound signature, and none of them have as much bass impact as the Carbon (they all output 15ma-18ma vs 22ma on the Carbon).
 
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Dec 6, 2022 at 7:29 PM Post #130 of 221
I don't think anyone is attacking it. No headphone is perfect with/for everything/everyone.

I believe it the true test for headphones is the test of time. Do they stay relevant for years after their release in their respective price category. Susvara, Utopia, Sennheisers are great examples. Too early with the X9K.

the old saying: if you don't like it in the first place, you won't like it ever after. it won't get second chance, revisit etc. unlikely.

let's talk about HD800 (non S), simply the most famous headphone that being attacked, if you still remember the countless posts that going furious, claiming it's so bad, no matter how many mods apply still unlistenable, the only thing about it is the soundstage. hd800 haters did exist, and many still bubble about it till today
was it this bad, well
 
Dec 6, 2022 at 7:32 PM Post #131 of 221
If anything I’d think the Carbon would be the more dynamic amp. The T2/megatron/GC amps are similar in their actual output current to the headphones, they just have a different sound signature, and none of them have as much bass impact as the Carbon anyways (they all output 15ma-18ma vs 22ma on the Carbon).
I owned Carbon so I understand and agree it has crazy quantity of power, in conjunction with great extensions and resolution. Yet to me it sounds empty, a bit lean, and hollow which is especially evident when you use it to watch videos and movies. ( No offense to Carbon owners, as I was one too)

X9000 will benefit from the high quality power and current that these tubes generate for the organic body, control, harmony, holographics, information and bones to fulfill the gigantic stage and room of X9000.
 
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Dec 6, 2022 at 7:42 PM Post #132 of 221
As someone with the T2, and Dave/Mscaler, I don't really think it comes down to chain. There is always a lot of tweaking you can do, but you can't change the base personality of a headphone completely. It's just a more laid back headphone, even with the T2, which is notoriously lively. As the x9000 absolutely becomes more lively with it over the BHSE and Aeras I did a shoot out before with, so do all of the other headphones (CRBN, SGL Sr., and 007 all become more lively in example), so the differences still exist because it's just the nature of the headphone. You can definitely make up some ground though with chain differences.
 
Dec 6, 2022 at 8:12 PM Post #133 of 221
As someone with the T2, and Dave/Mscaler, I don't really think it comes down to chain. There is always a lot of tweaking you can do, but you can't change the base personality of a headphone completely. It's just a more laid back headphone, even with the T2, which is notoriously lively. As the x9000 absolutely becomes more lively with it over the BHSE and Aeras I did a shoot out before with, so do all of the other headphones (CRBN, SGL Sr., and 007 all become more lively in example), so the differences still exist because it's just the nature of the headphone. You can definitely make up some ground though with chain differences.
I recognize and respect your opinions:) the innate tuning is powerful for sure. My X9000 system sounds somewhat like Shangrila SR, but less bright with more bass to me

Feel free to stop by:)
 
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Dec 6, 2022 at 8:54 PM Post #134 of 221
I owned Carbon so I understand and agree it has crazy quantity of power, in conjunction with great extensions and resolution. Yet to me it sounds empty, a bit lean, and hollow which is especially evident when you use it to watch videos and movies. ( No offense to Carbon owners, as I was one too)

X9000 will benefit from the high quality power and current that these tubes generate for the organic body, control, harmony, holographics, information and bones to fulfill the gigantic stage and room of X9000.

I think this ends up being rather timple - what you are experiencing is in fact the difference in voicing between a SS and a tube amp. It's a matter of taste (I love tubes and use them for some of my planar and dynamic headphons).

But as @number1sixerfan said, you can optimzie your chain to fine tune things to your preference, but the core voicing of your drivers is something you need to connect with to start to be worth that pursuit (i.e. if you don't find it's to your liking, better move on than optimize around it). Of course, if you like them (and I do) then tweaking is all the fun in our hobby..
 
Dec 6, 2022 at 9:05 PM Post #135 of 221
I recognize and respect your opinions:) the innate tuning is powerful for sure

But Feel free to stop by:)
I think this ends up being rather timple - what you are experiencing is in fact the difference in voicing between a SS and a tube amp. It's a matter of taste (I love tubes and use them for some of my planar and dynamic headphons).

But as @number1sixerfan said, you can optimzie your chain to fine tune things to your preference, but the core voicing of your drivers is something you need to connect with to start to be worth that pursuit (i.e. if you don't find it's to your liking, better move on than optimize around it). Of course, if you like them (and I do) then tweaking is all the fun in our hobby..
Solid state amps could be so full bodied sounding with beef and muscles such as Mytek Emprie, and Boulder headphone amp. Warwick acoustic solid state electrostatic systems also have meat to my ears imo. The reality is Nowadays more and more solid state amps try to sound as tube amps ❤️ while many tube amps try to sound like solid state 😭

Easy and simple, cause I haven’t found an electrostatic can to my liking out of stock within my budget lol

Happy Listening:)
 
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