[number1sixerfan]

CONFIRMED!!!

(Sorry, didn't think you'd actually believe any of it. Guess I'm not as good at comedy writing as I thought... )

LOL, I was also joking. I know if something actually did happen, it wouldn't be in a post lol. Or that elaborate and far-fetched. But still, a bit panicky haha.

 

[BassicScience]

I listen to quite a lot of electronic music these days. I often casually write "EDM", but you can't really dance to most of what I like. When I don't feel like playing DJ, I often listen to various Internet radio stations, and one of my "go to" streams is SomaFM: cliqhop idm. According to their self-description, typical artists include Telefon Tel Aviv, Boards Of Canada, Autechre, Aphex Twin, Mu-ziq, Black Dog, Cex, Ulrich Schnauss, and Album Leaf. That should give you a rough idea of what I gravitate towards (think "Warp Records").

I've been listening to this genre almost exclusively for the past 24 hours, and I can report that it sounds freakin' glorious on either the SGL or X9000! As an owner of the SGL Jr., I realized the potential of estats to shine with this music because of their ability to layer and soundstage and to reveal reverb and ambient cues, even if synthetic. Also, the agility of an estat often reveals subtle rhythmic inflections that other headphones don't, and this really adds to (my) enjoyment of this music. The problem with the SGL Jr. is that it just doesn't have the necessary bass reach/energy to convey the music to its full extent. No such issues with the SGL or X9000! Both have excellent bass heft, and enough slam to do electronic music full justice.

So, which headphone "wins" this round? It's probably the SGL, by the narrowest of margins. It's difficult to make definitive statements given the limited amount of time I've spent with them, but the SGL seems like it has a slight upper hand technically. I listened to a couple of my all-time favorite albums, Mezzanine by Massive Attack and Spokes by Plaid, last night on the SGL, and they've never sounded better (on headphones, anyway). After that experience, I started calculating how much I'd be willing to pay for an SGL. But, I listened to some tracks from those albums again this morning on the X9000, and they sounded just about on par. The bottom end on the X9000 is just a bit "riper", but maybe not quite as extended and linear as on the SGL. Kick drums image better on the X9000, while being a bit more diffuse on the SGL. Detail retrieval is similar on both headphones, and in the very highest tier for any headphones. Strangely the X9000's presentation is more intimate (in contrast to other genres) and "palpable" on most electronic music than the SGL's. The SGL sounds a bit more clinical vs. the X9000, which leans "organic", if such an adjective can apply to electronica. The SGL sounds just a bit more clean and precise, possibly in part to its slightly greater treble energy. Let me reiterate that they both sound amazing across the board, and which one I prefer at any given moment comes down to factors like mood and the particular track.

Finally, I'll add that I did play around with a 2 dB bass shelf at times with all of these headphones (including the Susvara). All of the headphones sound fine with it (it doesn't "contaminate" higher frequencies), and it was beneficial to some music. Electronica typically doesn't need it with these cans, with the exception of the SGL Jr. where I generally do want it.

I'll let you draw your own conclusions this time...

BTW, I'm returning these fabulous headphones to SixerFan tomorrow morning, so I don't plan on getting much sleep tonight! LAST CALL if anyone wants me to listen to any specific music on these and report my impressions!

 

[genefruit]

I listened to a couple of my all-time favorite albums, Mezzanine by Massive Attack ...

So for Mezzanine, SGL, 9000, or Susvara would be your first choice?

 

[BassicScience]

So for Mezzanine, SGL, 9000, or Susvara would be your first choice?

Wow, that's a tough question. Would I rather go to the Van Gogh or Picasso museum today? They both sound amazing with it. I had sort of a religious experience with the SGL listening to the entire album last night, but just now the bass is hitting a bit harder on the X9000, while the SGL has the more expansive soundstage. Again, these headphones are both so competent and without obvious flaws that it comes down to what you might be in the mood for at any particular time.

I now see you threw the Susvara in, as well. I just cued up Risingson on the Susvara. Bass and percussion a bit more prominent and snappier than on the SGL. Not as much layering and airiness on the background vocal and electronic washes, which gives the impression that you're further away and slightly less involved in the performance. That said, it's still very enjoyable on the Susvara, particularly if you want to focus on percussion and bass mostly. The X9000 may be more of a middle ground between the Susvara and SGL. Listening again now, the percussion is quite snappy with the track on the X9000, and the "background" elements sound more up front as well. I may be talking myself into preferring the X9000 overall, on this track at least.

 

[number1sixerfan]

I am trying to wait until the very end to comment as not to impart my thoughts on your impressions, but I'm enjoying the day to day updates thoroughly. I'll comment more in depth once you've completed your journey lol

 

[all2ofme]

@BassicScience — Loving your tune choices so far. Just

Would be very keen to hear your opinions on any of these, if you’re up for a night of listening…

Noir Désir — La fleuve
Son Lux — Aquatic
Sevdaliza — Habibi
Cowboy Junkies — I’m so lonesome (there’s a regular bass thump that some systems just miss entirely)
Pa Salieu — My family
Donny McCaslin — A small plot of land
O-Zone — Jazz Variants
Umalali — Nibari
Weyes Blood — Movies
Sidsel Endresen — Out here in there
Christine and the Queens — Tilted
Azizi Gibson — High
Yosi Horokawa — Bubbles (so good to see if a system does the lot in my opinion)
Moderat — Light on
Golden Palominos — Ride

(Already have the Susvara and X9000, and considering the Shangri La…)

 

[BassicScience]

@BassicScience — Loving your tune choices so far. Just

Would be very keen to hear your opinions on any of these, if you’re up for a night of listening…

Noir Désir — La fleuve
Son Lux — Aquatic
Sevdaliza — Habibi
Cowboy Junkies — I’m so lonesome (there’s a regular bass thump that some systems just miss entirely)
Pa Salieu — My family
Donny McCaslin — A small plot of land
O-Zone — Jazz Variants
Umalali — Nibari
Weyes Blood — Movies
Sidsel Endresen — Out here in there
Christine and the Queens — Tilted
Azizi Gibson — High
Yosi Horokawa — Bubbles (so good to see if a system does the lot in my opinion)
Moderat — Light on
Golden Palominos — Ride

(Already have the Susvara and X9000, and considering the Shangri La…)

Thanks, glad my music selections are working for you. Here are some quick thoughts on some of the above tracks on the SGL vs. X9000:

Son Lux - I prefer the SGL here. The bass has a firmness and grip whereas it's a bit vague on the X9000. Vocals are similar on both headphones.

Sevdaliza - Two notably different presentations here, both fantastic. The SGL is more distanced and panoramic, the X9000 more intimate and emotional, really highlighting the vocals. The SGL lets one admire the overall production more. I think I prefer the X9000 on this track.

Pa Salieu - Cool track! Similar comments to the previous track. The SGL has tauter bass and a more austere presentation. The X9000 imaging is more diffuse, as is the bass, but it still hits quite hard. I will reiterate that I didn't know estats could do bass like both of these headphones can! Very impressive.

O-Zone - Really well-recorded percussion track! Same general comments. The X9000 sounds more lifelike, or maybe as if you're just closer to the drum kit and other percussion. The emerging theme is that if you like headphones that lean warmer, you're probably going to prefer the X9000 on most material.

Umalali - Clear preference for the SGL on this track. The recording already has a very organic feel to it and the precision of the SGL complements it superbly. Sounds quite good on the X9000 as well, of course...

Weyes Blood - I prefer this track on the SGL. Her voice is a bit more distant, but the reverb on it is more clear and effective.

Sidsel Endresen - Beautiful, ethereal track on either headphone. Slight preference for the SGL.

Christine and the Queens - Fun track, which sounds similar and great on both headphones. Slight preference for the X9000.

Azizi Gibson - The more palpable, organic sound of this track on the X9000 works better for me. Bass is tighter, more urgent, but a little recessed on the SGL by comparison.

Yosi Horokawa - SGL is the clear winner for me on this track. It sounds bigger and the technical prowess of the SGL really separates all of the instruments and sound effects effortlessly.

Golden Palominos - Heh, I used to really dig this band, but somehow overlooked this album. Classic GP track, which fares much better on the SGL to my ears.

----------

Thanks for submitting that list! It was very educational in terms of evaluating the headphones, and I'm going to follow up with several of those artists in the coming days. Listening to these tracks makes me draw the analogy: SGL <==> solid state, X9000 <==> tubes. Highly imperfect analogy, but perhaps of some general value.

 

[all2ofme]

Great stuff — thank you!

You’ll be sorry to hand back the chocolate-flavoured, heavily-patinated SGL by the sound of it

If you’re at all inclined, I’m likely among a group of people who’d like to hear more about how you think all of this sits for Susvara people. My Enleum drives my Susvara brilliantly, and I’ve heard a T2 with the X9000 (yum), but several days and several thousand miles apart.

 

[BassicScience]

EPILOGUE / EXCITING (or not ) CONCLUSION

I returned the SGL and X9000 to @number1sixerfan on Saturday morning. Again, HUGE THANK YOU to him for one of the coolest favors anyone has ever done for me! I wanted to listen to the Susvara and SGL Jr. again over the rest of the weekend before typing up my final thoughts on the TOTL estats I'd had on loan the previous week. My first impulse was to reach for the SGL Jr. (over the Susvara), which says a lot about my overall enthusiasm for the estat sound right now. For the SGL Jr., I've added a 3dB bass shelf below 100 Hz with Roon EQ (and done a -3dB headroom adjustment to avoid clipping). This fills out the bass a bit, but still doesn't bring the SGL Jr's bass performance to the level of the SGL or X9000 (even without any EQ for either). I don't really like to fiddle with EQ beyond very basic tweaks such as a bass shelf, because I find it takes my focus away from just enjoying music, which is the end goal of all of this.

Speaking of "just enjoying music", I'm the kind of person who likes to sit down, put on a single pair of headphones, and just spend the evening listening to wherever my moods (or some Internet radio station(s)) may take me. In other words, I'd prefer not to have to change headphones to best suit a particular genre, hence my love of the Susvara which is a jack-of-all-trades kind of headphone. But there's no denying that estats deliver a certain magic that planars just can't attain. With the SGL Jr., the tradeoff for that magic is the quite noticeable roll-off in the bass, which means that even a lot of electronica (which requires bass extension, but not necessarily slam) isn't particularly satisfying (to my ears) on the SGL Junior. The SR-X9000 and SGL don't suffer from lack of bass, at all. They can even punch enough for most rock music (I don't really listen to much metal), although there are probably better options if rock and roll is the main staple of your listening diet, IMO.

In summary, I'll be looking to acquire a Stax SR-X9000 as soon as they become more available. I think there's a reasonable chance it could take the mantle from the Susvara as my daily driver. One never really knows until you live with a headphone for a while just how satisfied you'll be with it across a wide range of music. I'll definitely be posting my comparative impressions vs. Susvara whenever I acquire the X9000. I may also pursue the SGL, but it's harder to justify in my mind given that it's roughly twice the cost of the X9000. I think it's slightly better from a technical perspective, but the X9000 is a bit warmer (Iess austere/clinical) and may be a tad punchier in the bass, both of which suit my preferences. The SGL handles large scale, high dynamic range music with a bit more composure. If I listened to a lot of symphonic music, the SGL would be the clear choice for that, but I'm more likely to listen to smaller ensembles when I'm in the mood for classical music. The SGL seems like an incremental step up from the X9000, as opposed to an entirely different class of headphone. As enumerated above, I actually preferred the presentation of the X9000 on a number of specific tracks.

I think it's safe to say that the SGL and X9000 are the two best estats available at the moment (by a good margin, IMHO). Depending on your preferences, they are two of the very best headphones of any type on the market right now. Both are very well-balanced across the frequency range and do not require EQ. I experimented with a 2 dB bass shelf and they both responded well (didn't get muddy at higher frequencies). Both are relatively light and very comfortable to wear. Highest marks for either of these fantastic headphones!

 

[buzzlulu]

Great conclusion!
Next up for you - BHSE, Carbon, Aeris or T2
Then let’s speak

 

[BassicScience]

Great conclusion!
Next up for you - BHSE, Carbon, Aeris or T2
Then let’s speak

I've heard the BHSE on several occasions. Its performance is in the same league with my iESL setup, IMO. The Eksonic amps (particularly the T2) are fantastic, but not sure I have space for the T2. May see if Kerry will let me home demo the Aeras down the line, but first I need to get the X9000 itself!

 

[number1sixerfan]

EPILOGUE / EXCITING (or not ) CONCLUSION

I returned the SGL and X9000 to @number1sixerfan on Saturday morning. Again, HUGE THANK YOU to him for one of the coolest favors anyone has ever done for me! I wanted to listen to the Susvara and SGL Jr. again over the rest of the weekend before typing up my final thoughts on the TOTL estats I'd had on loan the previous week. My first impulse was to reach for the SGL Jr. (over the Susvara), which says a lot about my overall enthusiasm for the estat sound right now. For the SGL Jr., I've added a 3dB bass shelf below 100 Hz with Roon EQ (and done a -3dB headroom adjustment to avoid clipping). This fills out the bass a bit, but still doesn't bring the SGL Jr's bass performance to the level of the SGL or X9000 (even without any EQ for either). I don't really like to fiddle with EQ beyond very basic tweaks such as a bass shelf, because I find it takes my focus away from just enjoying music, which is the end goal of all of this.

Speaking of "just enjoying music", I'm the kind of person who likes to sit down, put on a single pair of headphones, and just spend the evening listening to wherever my moods (or some Internet radio station(s)) may take me. In other words, I'd prefer not to have to change headphones to best suit a particular genre, hence my love of the Susvara which is a jack-of-all-trades kind of headphone. But there's no denying that estats deliver a certain magic that planars just can't attain. With the SGL Jr., the tradeoff for that magic is the quite noticeable roll-off in the bass, which means that even a lot of electronica (which requires bass extension, but not necessarily slam) isn't particularly satisfying (to my ears) on the SGL Junior. The SR-X9000 and SGL don't suffer from lack of bass, at all. They can even punch enough for most rock music (I don't really listen to much metal), although there are probably better options if rock and roll is the main staple of your listening diet, IMO.

In summary, I'll be looking to acquire a Stax SR-X9000 as soon as they become more available. I think there's a reasonable chance it could take the mantle from the Susvara as my daily driver. One never really knows until you live with a headphone for a while just how satisfied you'll be with it across a wide range of music. I'll definitely be posting my comparative impressions vs. Susvara whenever I acquire the X9000. I may also pursue the SGL, but it's harder to justify in my mind given that it's roughly twice the cost of the X9000. I think it's slightly better from a technical perspective, but the X9000 is a bit warmer (Iess austere/clinical) and may be a tad punchier in the bass, both of which suit my preferences. The SGL handles large scale, high dynamic range music with a bit more composure. If I listened to a lot of symphonic music, the SGL would be the clear choice for that, but I'm more likely to listen to smaller ensembles when I'm in the mood for classical music. The SGL seems like an incremental step up from the X9000, as opposed to an entirely different class of headphone. As enumerated above, I actually preferred the presentation of the X9000 on a number of specific tracks.

I think it's safe to say that the SGL and X9000 are the two best estats available at the moment (by a good margin, IMHO). Depending on your preferences, they are two of the very best headphones of any type on the market right now. Both are very well-balanced across the frequency range and do not require EQ. I experimented with a 2 dB bass shelf and they both responded well (didn't get muddy at higher frequencies). Both are relatively light and very comfortable to wear. Highest marks for either of these fantastic headphones!

Definitely, you're very welcome! I'm glad the situation presented itself and before the T2 arrives, as I'm sure I won't be letting them out of my sight then haha. And I didn't realize how much I've missed both of these. I have echo the above sentiment; right now, to my ears, these the top two cans to beat. I should note, I haven't heard the Valkyrie, the HE-1 and a few others that are out there that's touted to be in the premium tier and will be interested in doing so (pretty sure I'll hear the HE-1 in SF before I move out of California).

Again have been holding off any saying much in this thread until you were finished as not to impart my thoughts on your impressions. But I think we pretty much see things pretty similarly here. Similar to you, when I first compared the x9000 and SGL, I essentially had them dead equal. After a few more weeks, it was a bit clear that the SGL is a bit better in some technical areas (much of which you've covered), so overall I do have it first and a bit ahead. However, also similar to you, we are talking just by a bit in each category, which then does make the SGL's cost a huge factor that you have to consider.

I would definitely start by first seeing if the x9000 matches your tastes enough before buying a SGL. I think the slight bass presence increase would be a plus for anyone, but they're pretty similar in that regard. The things that are more preferential imo are the relaxed staging, more warmth and relaxing tonality. Outside of that, they both perform so well technically that again I'd start with the x9000 simply from a cost perspective. Coming from the Susvara, which shares some of the qualities mentioned above, I think it's a pretty safe bet for most. I'd only skip straight to the SGL if you know you prefer a more forward sound and if you would prefer a more traditional e-stat sound--more neutral tonality vs. warmth and with more sparkly highs; but at the tradeoff of also having a stronger sense of brightness (again which isn't much compared to say the 009 or other brighter Stax headphones).

Lastly, to be clear here, I like the tonality/staging of both the x9000 and the SGL and find them to be really complementary for each other.. and as shown in your post above, at times I've tended to prefer one over the other for certain types of tracks/genres. It's been a joy reading this thread and hopefully it helps a lot of others with their headphone journey.

 

[hardpike]

Indeed, great thread

Thank you guys

 

[Roasty]

I really liked the X9000. really, really liked it. close to perfect for me.

how does the ifi iesl work? I see speaker plugs in and out and balanced xlr input. which do u use?

are you considering anything else eg lta z10e/woo 3es/T2?

 

[BassicScience]

I really liked the X9000. really, really liked it. close to perfect for me.

how does the ifi iesl work? I see speaker plugs in and out and balanced xlr input. which do u use?

are you considering anything else eg lta z10e/woo 3es/T2?

Hey Roasty,

Glad to hear the X9000 was your cup of tea! I've always considered you a man of impeccable taste, especially where it aligns with my own...

The iESL is essentially two (one per channel) custom-designed transformers that passively boost signal voltage, in conjunction with a capacitor bank which provides the bias voltage to an estat. It can be driven by either a speaker amp (speaker connections) or a reasonably powerful headphone amp (XLR input). I'm using short speaker cables from my speaker amp to the iESL. It also has four variable impedance settings (16, 24, 64, 96 ohms) which effectively determine how much voltage gain the transformers provide (I'm using 24 ohms), and several discrete bias settings between 500 and 640V (I use 580V, and haven't really experimented with this... yet). The speaker out plugs are a straight pass-through from the speaker inputs when the iESL is switched off, which is how I drive the Susvara. Alternatively, a dynamic or planar headphone can be driven from the "Dynamic" jack on the front of the iESL, but in that case the signal IS going through the transformers. This functionality may be useful for driving more sensitive headphones by setting the iESL's impedance to 96 ohms, thus reducing the amplifier's effective gain.

In sum, the iESL is a flexible, superb-sounding unit which was a relatively low cost avenue for me to begin dabbling in estats. My only problem recommending it is that iFi discontinued it in late 2021!

Whether I invest in an actual estat amp in the future depends, firstly, on whether the X9000 (and/or SGL) actually becomes my primary headphone (as I expect it will) after I live with it for a little while. Secondly, I'd need to audition candidate amps in my home to verify that they clearly better the iESL sonically. I wouldn't be interested in anything that represents only a minor upgrade. Unfortunately, all estat amps I'm aware of are integrated amplifiers, whereas what I really want is just an estat power amp. I already own one of the finest preamps available for my 2-channel setup, and I'd like to continue to leverage that for headphone listening. Given my background in EE, I've actually considered modifying an estat amp down the line to (optionally) bypass its volume control, if I find one I truly love. The T2 is the best I've heard to date, but it's also quite large, and its chassis are not stackable AFAIK. I am really looking forward to reading @number1sixerfan 's impressions when he gets his, though!

Finally, it's interesting that you mention the Z10e. I arranged a short home audition of the Z10 just before I acquired the SGL Junior. The Z10e was on my radar, but I felt I could only justify it if it drove the Susvara at least as well as my current chain. I confirmed with LTA that the Z10 was an identical circuit as the Z10e when driving conventional headphones, so I went ahead with the Z10 audition. It sounded quite good, but the bass performance in particular was not quite on par with my Class D amps. It's also a rather large unit with a ton of tubes (heat, maintenance), so I decided it wasn't the answer for me. Build quality and ergonomics were A+, however. Also, I've read generally very favorable reviews from people who actually own the unit, FWIW. The Woo amps are solid, but have never really distinguished themselves when I've auditioned them at various shows or shops. YMMV.