[drk]

can you tell me which one of these DACs is better, that is, which one of these devices would have better analog output sound quality?

 

[islewind]

the e-mu 0404 will sound much better.

 

[drk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by islewind /img/forum/go_quote.gif the e-mu 0404 will sound much better.

are you sure? have you heard both of those?

 

[sejarzo]

The only info I can find about the DAC in the HK is on another forum, on which a user posted that the HK uses an Analog Devices AD1855 D/A chip. That chip was released about five years before the Asahi Kasei (AKM Semiconductor) AK4396 that is used in the 0404 USB.

The Analog Devices site indicates that the AD1855 is obsolete and not recommended for new designs, while the AK4396 is still the state-of-the-art from AKM.

One could employ the latest D/A chip from any supplier but ruin the end result by bad circuit design around the DAC, but the fact that AD doesn't make it or recommend it any longer is a good clue that it's no longer on the top of the heap, performance-wise.

Slim Devices uses the AK4396 in the $2k Transporter, which has been pretty well-reviewed....but the HK did win some awards, too.

On paper, the win goes to the 0404 USB.........but........on the other hand, some people swear by old non-oversampling DAC's that have much worse performance "on paper."

You'd really have to hear both for yourself in the same system to make a good decision about what is best for you and the type of music you listen to most of the time.

EDIT: Another post I found just now indicates that the HK uses the AD1955 chip rather than the AD1855 chip. The AD1955 is the state-of-the-art chip from Analog Devices.

That makes it even more important to listen to both, IMHO........it would likely be a question of personal preference rather than one being better without a doubt.

 

[drk]

thanks sejarzo...well i can not find info about which exact chip that HK model uses, but i really doubt it would be that old one, since that HK model is rated "EISA best product 2005./2006." it would be quite funny and unlikely if it used that old dac.

maybe that user on the forum was referring to some older HK model, not the HD 970, but the HD 950? or something even older?

thanks...i'll try some digging. if anyone know something else, please share

 

[sejarzo]

I'm now convinced that the OP simply made a typo on that other forum...he was indeed referring to the HK 970, but replies further down the thread identify the chip as the AD1955.

I see from the HK web site for the USA that they don't offer that piece here. Like others, it appears that HK has given up on single-disc CD players for the US market. That's too bad; I always thought that HK gear was an excellent value and built quite well compared to some similarly-priced competition! I used one of their CD players and a tuner/preamp for many years.

As to using "not the latest and greatest".......the Marantz SA8001 SACD player uses the CS4397 chip, and it hit the market after some lower-priced multi-format players were introduced using the newer CS4398, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[drk]

thanks sejarzo dude

. you helped me to identify the DAC on that HK - i could not find it anywhere, not even in the online manual for that product.

yeah, everyone says that that HK model is really great for its price. and i live in europe, so it's widely available which is also quite important for me since ordering from outside of my country i would get ripped off by taxes and all that.

anyway, that HK also has optical and coaxial digital INPUTS, which is so totally great for me, since this way i can hook up my computer to it and use it as a DAC for computer + have a stand-alone CD-P.

so, basically what you said about that DAC (AD1955) is that it's on level with stuff like AK4396 in e-mu 0404 usb?

 

[drk]

i've also found one german forum, where one person also said that that HK model uses AD1955...

 

[OvidiuDanut]

I owned the 0404USB for about 3 weaks and after that i got rid of them asap.
There is no hi-fi sound in the AKM dac of emu however praised may it be. I'm done with soundcards. Except maybe for some RME cards or Lynx II, no soundcard is able to provide hi-fi sound. Now i have a standalone DAC and its ages ahead the E-MU.

 

[sejarzo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OvidiuDanut /img/forum/go_quote.gif I owned the 0404USB for about 3 weaks and after that i got rid of them asap. There is no hi-fi sound in the AKM dac of emu however praised may it be. I'm done with soundcards. Except maybe for some RME cards or Lynx II, no soundcard is able to provide hi-fi sound. Now i have a standalone DAC and its ages ahead the E-MU.

I'm curious....

Just what do you mean by "hi-fi sound"?

And why would a standalone DAC necessarily be better than a sound card?

And is your opinion that the AKM D/A's are incapable of producing accurate sound, regardless of the rest of the implementation?

 

[OvidiuDanut]

1. "Hi-Fi sound" can be a relative term but i'll describe you to better understand what i mean by comparaison of facts. The sound of the 250 euro DAC i purchased is way more transparent, delivers a more natural sound, much better understood soundstage, better imaging, more texture of the instruments sound than the 0404USB could do. I compared it with a 500 de euro CDP and it sounds better even than the CDP. 0404USB is no way near that.

2. I didnt say that any other standalone DAC is better than the E-MU, just that mine is.

3. It produces an accurate sound for the class of soundcards where it is but no more than that. I seriously doubt that anyone experienced in hi-fi sounding would use the E-MU as dac complementary with hi-end equipament such as ~1000$ amps and ~500$ headphones. And i'm also pretty sure that no one would use a 400$ CDP as transport and the E-MU as DAC standalone for its sounding properties.

Hey don't get me wrong! I'm not throwing any rocks at the E-MU. For its money? What a bargain! It has so many features packed up, its success its perfectly understandable. But if you really want to get the most of headphones like HD580/600/650 or AKG 701, E-MU is not the way to go, neither as amp nor as dac.

 

[senns&nonsense]

I have the EMU 0404 and think the DAC sounds fantastic. I have A/Bd it against an Oppo (among others) whose sound has been reviewed by many to be better than many very high-end players and the EMU was equally detailed and significantly more musical and natural/live sounding. It is, IMO, an amazing bargain. I bought it, in part, because of reviews here by people who had chosen it over standalone Dacs that cost multiples more. my experience has gratefully been similarly positive. I am in the process of buying high-end cans and will be upgrading my amp as well, but the EMU is staying, FWIW.....

 

[OvidiuDanut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by senns&nonsense /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have the EMU 0404 and think the DAC sounds fantastic. I have A/Bd it against an Oppo (among others) whose sound has been reviewed by many to be better than many very high-end players and the EMU was equally detailed and significantly more musical and natural/live sounding. It is, IMO, an amazing bargain. I bought it, in part, because of reviews here by people who had chosen it over standalone Dacs that cost multiples more. my experience has gratefully been similarly positive. I am in the process of buying high-end cans and will be upgrading my amp as well, but the EMU is staying, FWIW.....

You bought it after reading reviews and other peoples opinions. Honestly so did I. But after hearing for my self what a standalone DAC could do, i realized that it was a mistake . BTW with which CDP or standalone DACs have you compared the E-MU for yourself? I'm curious...

 

[senns&nonsense]

The Oppo was the best of the bunch (981 I think - it is downstairs and not near my desk here) but I also compared to Sony CDP (xx95 I think?) and then one Zhaolu (not sure which, but recent and modded to some degree), though that was at a friend's house using my own cans/amp and not A/B so though it seemed like no contest to me I can't be quite as sure of myself.

Not a ton of experience, but I have been through a lot of stuff in the last few months (incl. cheaper items that I didn't bother to list) and Apple lossless through the EMu is one place where i just (so far...) feel very little pull to upgrade. I am sure there are better, but I think they may be further up the food chain than I am willing to spend right now. And for less than $200 to get all that functionality (recording, balanced outs, quality amp) is really impressive.....

 

[OvidiuDanut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by senns&nonsense /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Oppo was the best of the bunch (981 I think - it is downstairs and not near my desk here) but I also compared to Sony CDP (xx95 I think?) and then one Zhaolu (not sure which, but recent and modded to some degree), though that was at a friend's house using my own cans/amp and not A/B so though it seemed like no contest to me I can't be quite as sure of myself. Not a ton of experience, but I have been through a lot of stuff in the last few months (incl. cheaper items that I didn't bother to list) and Apple lossless through the EMu is one place where i just (so far...) feel very little pull to upgrade. I am sure there are better, but I think they may be further up the food chain than I am willing to spend right now. And for less than $200 to get all that functionality (recording, balanced outs, quality amp) is really impressive.....

Indeed all that functionallity for ~200$ is impressive. About the quality amp must i say that is quality amp but for headphones with low impedance such as HD595 or Grado line perhaps, but for my HD580 just didnt cut it.