DVD 963 – Genius with some quirks
Feb 8, 2003 at 12:59 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 15

JaZZ

Headphoneus Supremus
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This is one of my best buys ever. Even used as a transport, connected to a separate DAC, it beats a so-called high-end device by far with its more detailed and livelier sound. Astonishing – well, there are just 0s and 1s to be picked up and transported... Where does such a huge sonic difference result from?

When used as a full-range CD player, it can easily compete with the highly appreciated Bel Canto DAC2. It's even «faster» and more detailed. Well, after my initial euphory, I don't really think it beats the DAC2 overall, but it's at least very close, and if I would have had it first, I probably wouldn't feel the need to buy a better (external) DAC. But now that I have it, I'm happy anyway. In comparison it's refined, a trace darker, with more pronounced low bass and slightly rounded highs – a really beautiful sound! The Philips' DAC is faster, even more detailed and transparent, with slightly accentuated treble. The Bel Canto sounds a bit more 3-dimensional, with a larger and deeper soundstage. It's mainly the choice between power and speed. Often not a simple one, but it's fun to have it.


I promised to mention some quirks:

– The ease of use with CD- and SACD operation is lousy. I'd like to have a basic setting without CD text. Unfortunately it can't be adjusted that way yourself.

– There's no possibility to get the remaining time displayed, and the total time can only be seen when the transport has stopped.

– The reactions to commands are very slooooww.

– Pity the upsampling rate (96 or 192 kHz) can't be chosen without having a TV or monitor connected. BTW, I rather believe the «192 kHz» in the display than the «172 kHz» in the TV menu and the user manual.

– The search function is kind of nerve-wracking: much too slow and unhandy with its mode probably designed for video-DVD use (search stops only when hitting «play» again).

– The «pause» button is completely dispensable: it can't do what the «play» button can't (quite the opposite: to continue playing the «play» button must be activated, which in turn manages the «pause» function as well).

– Some CDs in parts cause awful vibrations of the whole chassis which even can grow to kind of tractor noise. Obviously due to some tracking control activities (involving great moving masses?). My reference transport plays these CDs with stoic calm. After all the reproduction isn't harmed thereby, save by the mechanic noise.

– This was a disappointing experience: with the SACD Chris Gestrin: «Stillpoint» (Songlines SGL SA1540-2), in Track 2 at 4:01 the player jumps abruptly to the next track. A second DVD 963SA showed the same behavior. So I ordered a new disk in the store, but with this one the same effect appeared. It seamed clear that there was a pressing mistake in the whole series. What a pity! Such a fascinating music (contemporary jazz) in superb recording quality, like made for hi-rez! But it was even worse: the same disc was no problem for the cheap Sony SACD players in the CD store...


I thought after so much enthusiasm some criticism isn't bad. It's by far not a perfect device. But it's still a sensational bargain and the best source you can buy – be it for CD or SACD (or DVD) – below say $2000 (to be conservative).


smily_headphones1.gif
JaZZ
 
Feb 8, 2003 at 3:23 AM Post #2 of 15
Jazz:

While on the subject of small gripes. What do you and others think about the angle of acceptance of the remote control? I can only get it to work standing directly in front of the unit. I have also programmed my Pronto and Sony Remote Commander and they don't work any better. My stereo rack is behind me and I depend on bouncing the IR off my screen, works for everything else, no problem Any expert out there have a solution? And why no command for open and close? I'm American, what can I say? Anyway, I echo all the positive comments about the sound and abilities of this unit. Video? the jury is still out as far as I'm concerned; still need to do some more watching and tweaking.

Bob
 
Feb 8, 2003 at 4:31 AM Post #4 of 15
Ok this may be a really dumb question.

I don't care,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I'm gonna ask it anyway!

Would you say that the redbook playback on the phillips is better than one of the Sony ES SACD players? (222es or 555es)
 
Feb 8, 2003 at 6:41 AM Post #5 of 15
JaZZ: What about the drive noise, by the way. I've read somewhere that the drive of the 963SA is not one of the very quiet ones - what do you think? Maybe that only applies to - uhm, what's "unwuchtig" in English? maybe uneven - CDs or DVDs only...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
Feb 8, 2003 at 8:16 AM Post #6 of 15
Quote:

Originally posted by bobjew
Jazz:

While on the subject of small gripes. What do you and others think about the angle of acceptance of the remote control? I can only get it to work standing directly in front of the unit. I have also programmed my Pronto and Sony Remote Commander and they don't work any better. My stereo rack is behind me and I depend on bouncing the IR off my screen, works for everything else, no problem Any expert out there have a solution? And why no command for open and close? I'm American, what can I say? Anyway, I echo all the positive comments about the sound and abilities of this unit. Video? the jury is still out as far as I'm concerned; still need to do some more watching and tweaking.

Bob


Hmmm...for the IR problems, you can always set up one of the IR repeaters on the market. Most, I think, convert your IR into RF, then back, so you'd set up the receiver near (on, whatever) your TV, and the retransmitter behind you in front of the stereo rack.

As for the open/close button....well....that's the built-in exercise "feature".
evil_smiley.gif


-Nadim
 
Feb 8, 2003 at 11:14 AM Post #8 of 15
bobjew...

...yes, the IR angle seems quite limited (though it's no issue in my case): below 2 m you can go up to 60° or even more, but above 2 m there are just 40 or even 35° left. I can make the IR reflect from a window screen behind me, an effective total distance of 7 or 8 m.


meech...

...I don't know the Sony 222ED and 555ES; but looking at the comment from RickG©...
Quote:

I'm not going to make comments 'til later about the SACD and upsampled Red Book playback because it sounds so damn good, I don't wanna type... just wanna enjoy...


...who's equipment comprises Sony SCD-C555ES/SCD-CE775... And Nightfall wrote:
Quote:

For redbook cd playback, this unit and its upsampling is better than anything I have heard up to five times its price... On SACD's its also just superb. Its better than the 555ES.


Besides the Bel Canto DAC2 also isn't a bad reference.


Manfred...

...from my experience the occasional vibrations are rather a matter of tracking problems with some (few) CDs than of a mechanical unbalance/excentricity of the drive or the CD itself. Apart from that the drive is quite calm except for a funny clicking noise every 1½ seconds, but it's very low, barely audible, the less so when the music's playing.


smily_headphones1.gif
JaZZ
 
Feb 8, 2003 at 2:36 PM Post #9 of 15
JaZZ,
Those sounds and vibrations that you describe seem similar to those on my recently deceased (for the 2nd time) Phillips SACD 1000. I've run into other smilar accounts on both Phillips models at the asylum.

That player had a fantastically refined sound, and I am now scrambling to find a replacement.
 
Feb 8, 2003 at 2:52 PM Post #10 of 15
Just some tips for you Jazz,

You can disable the CD text using the "display" key on the RC.

Also the upsampling is indeed 192khz. It actually uses the same ADi upsampling chip as the Bel Canto DAC2.
 
Feb 8, 2003 at 3:25 PM Post #11 of 15
pigmode...

was there a mechanical defect with the drive? I hope it's not a similar case with the DVD 963SA – just because of similar noises. Did you ever get some explanations to them?

Quote:

Originally posted by Xerxes
You can disable the CD text using the "display" key on the RC.


Thanks, Xerxes... it just bothers me to constantly have to do that...
wink.gif


Quote:

Also the upsampling is indeed 192 kHz. It actually uses the same ADi upsampling chip as the Bel Canto DAC2.


That's interesting. I like the effect of upsampling and leave it on all the time. I don't agree with others who say it makes the sound brighter or sharper; I perceive the exact opposite: it gets smoother, less nervous, like slightly rounded, but in a «natural» way and without sacrificing detail, gains focus (contour) in a superordinate level, musical tension as well as depth and coherency. I think its perception is very individual and subjective.


smily_headphones1.gif
JaZZ
 
Feb 8, 2003 at 3:37 PM Post #12 of 15
Ric Schultz opened up the 963, and described what he found. You can see it by clicking here:

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?f...igital&n=59784

Ric said the 963 uses the Analog Devices AD1895 SRC (sample rate converter), which would mean that the 963 almost certainly upsamples to 192 (as opposed to 172). The Bel Canto uses the AD1896.

Features of the AD1895 (from Analog Devices' site):[size=xx-small] Quote:

  1. Automatically Senses Sample Frequencies
  2. No Programming Required
  3. Attenuates Sample Clock Jitter
  4. 3.3 V to 5 V Input and 3.3 V Core Supply Voltages
  5. Accepts 16-/18-/20-/24-Bit Data
  6. Up to 192 kHz Sample Rate
  7. Input/Output Sample Ratios from 7.75:1 to 1:8
  8. Bypass Mode
  9. Multiple AD1895 TDM Daisy-Chain Mode
  10. 128 dB Signal-to-Noise and Dynamic Range (A-Weighted, 20 Hz to 20 kHz BW)
  11. Up to –122 dB THD + N
  12. Linear Phase FIR Filter
  13. Hardware Controllable Soft Mute
  14. Supports 256 x fS, 512 x fS, or 768 x fS Master Mode Clock
  15. Flexible 3-Wire Serial Data Port with Left-Justified, I2S, Right-Justified (16-, 18-, 20-, 24-Bit), and TDM Serial Port Modes
  16. Master/Slave Input and Output Modes
  17. 28-Lead SSOP Plastic Package


[/size]Features of the AD1896 (from Analog Devices' site):[size=xx-small] Quote:

  1. Automatically Senses Sample Frequencies
  2. No Programming Required
  3. Attenuates Sample Clock Jitter
  4. 3.3 V–5 V Input and 3.3 V Core Supply Voltages
  5. Accepts 16-/18-/20-/24-Bit Data
  6. Up to 192 kHz Sample Rate
  7. Input/Output Sample Ratios from 7.75:1 to 1:8
  8. Bypass Mode
  9. Multiple AD1896 TDM Daisy-Chain Mode
  10. Multiple AD1896 Matched-Phase Mode
  11. 142 dB Signal-to-Noise and Dynamic Range (A-Weighted, 20 Hz–20 kHz BW)
  12. Up to –133 dB THD + N
  13. Linear Phase FIR Filter
  14. Hardware Controllable Soft Mute
  15. Supports 256 x fS, 512 x fS or 768 x fS Master Mode Clock
  16. Flexible Three-Wire Serial Data Port with Left-Justified, I2S, Right-Justified (16-,18-, 20-, 24-Bits), and TDM Serial Port Modes
  17. Master/Slave Input and Output Modes
  18. 28-Lead SSOP Plastic Package


[/size]Ric seems to like the 963, and wants to get to modifying it (as that's what he does). One of the mods he's making includes work on the stock switching power supply:

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?f...igital&n=59949

Other comments he's made that are at least somewhat related can be found at the following links:

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?f...igital&n=57737
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=hirez&n=123729
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=hirez&n=123575
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=hirez&n=123435

He seems to be pretty enthusiastic about the 963 at its price, and it'll be interesting to see what he thinks after it's modified/upgraded.
 
Feb 8, 2003 at 4:36 PM Post #13 of 15
Quote:

Originally posted by JaZZ
pigmode...

was there a mechanical defect with the drive? I hope it's not a similar case with the DVD 963SA – just because of similar noises. Did you ever get some explanations to them?


No explanations, but that was from the local Phillips repair shop. I'm waiting for some UPS labels to send it off to the San Jose facility.


I might take a chance on a 963SA in a few months or so.
 
Feb 8, 2003 at 6:07 PM Post #14 of 15
Quote:

There have been a number of posts on this issue, especially with respect to Philips. I have a similar problem on my Denon DVM-4800 DVD-A changer which may shed some light on this. 3 out of the 600 or so discs I own tick or flutter on some tracks. I phoned Denon and they indicated that the disc would be out of spec, either in thickness or off center. One of the three discs is an aluminum HDCD from Reference Recordings. So, I burned a CD-R and it doesn't tick. Neither does the original in my SA-14. My thought: some transports have lower fault tolerance viz out of spec discs than others.


The above quote was copied from a thread on the Audio Asylum board. Does this sound feasible? For what it's worth, I've tried about 30 disks on my player and have never heard any ticking noises. I wonder if I am lucky or if the Dynamat I put on reduces or eliminates anything...
 
Feb 8, 2003 at 7:11 PM Post #15 of 15
Thanks for the links, Jude. Ric Schultz's comments on Burr-Brown and Crystal DACs are exactly what I've been looking for all week. A lot of new digital amps (such as the Yamaha RX-1300) use 192k Crystal DACs. I don't know the model number, but they're said to sound quite good. Ric's remarks have stopped me from purchasing the older VX-1. The DACs are well made but would seem to be out of date.

Since we can't all afford the latest Musical Fidelity or Bel Canto kit, I hope that certain newer commercial amps and CD/SACD players will use the PCM 1792. If any do, I hope someone (Wallijonn?) will post the info.

Ric's possible upgrade path is making the 963 look better and better. Too bad about the transport issues, though.
 

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