[oddity]

Main Article: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning_kruger_effect 
 
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled people make poor decisions and reach erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the metacognitive ability to appreciate their mistakes.^[1] The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their own abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority. This leads to the situation in which less competent people rate their own ability higher than more competent people. It also explains why actual competence may weaken self-confidence. Competent individuals falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. As Kruger and Dunning (1999) conclude, "Thus, the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others" (p. 1127). ^[2]
 
One has got to wonder how often this sort of thing appears in the audio-critic world.

 

[nick_charles]

 
Quote:

Main Article: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning_kruger_effect 
 
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled people make poor decisions and reach erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the metacognitive ability to appreciate their mistakes.^[1] The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their own abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority. This leads to the situation in which less competent people rate their own ability higher than more competent people. It also explains why actual competence may weaken self-confidence. Competent individuals falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. As Kruger and Dunning (1999) conclude, "Thus, the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others" (p. 1127). ^[2]
 
One has got to wonder how often this sort of thing appears in the audio-critic world.

Sean Olive (Harman) tested different types of listeners in a blind discrimination test, overall audio magazine reviewers did only slightly better than students, worse than audio sales staff and far worse than formally trained listeners.
 
If we use the ability to detect gross inaccuracies in hifi kit as a measure of competence then SP reviewers fall down time and time again.
 
I never give "subjective" reviews beyond whether i like or dislike something, not from modesty but from a general sense that by and large my views will be meaningless to others...
 

 

[oddity]

Quote:

 

Sean Olive (Harman) tested different types of listeners in a blind discrimination test, overall audio magazine reviewers did only slightly better than students, worse than audio sales staff and far worse than formally trained listeners.
 
If we use the ability to detect gross inaccuracies in hifi kit as a measure of competence then SP reviewers fall down time and time again.
 
I never give "subjective" reviews beyond whether i like or dislike something, not from modesty but from a general sense that by and large my views will be meaningless to others...
 

 
 
Well said! 
 
 

 

[terriblepaulz]

Quote:

 
I never give "subjective" reviews beyond whether i like or dislike something, not from modesty but from a general sense that by and large my views will be meaningless to others...
 

Humility as a result of experience - what a concept.
 
 

 

[arcticears]

Yes, what a concept but I doubt that it will catch on.

 

[oddity]

Quote:

Yes, what a concept but I doubt that it will catch on.

Too right.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Placebo and expectation bias are much bigger problems in audio than Dunning-Krueger.

Then again, I have zero psychological training.

 

[jcx]

I was appalled to see a elementary school teacher doing her student evaluation forms and ranking "shows self confidence" - I tried to point out this shouldn't be "additive" but should in fact be multiplicative
 
high self confidence and poor understanding is more "wrong " than poor understanding and knowing you've probably got it wrong

 

[Prog Rock Man]

 
Quote:

 

Sean Olive (Harman) tested different types of listeners in a blind discrimination test, overall audio magazine reviewers did only slightly better than students, worse than audio sales staff and far worse than formally trained listeners.
 
If we use the ability to detect gross inaccuracies in hifi kit as a measure of competence then SP reviewers fall down time and time again.
 
I never give "subjective" reviews beyond whether i like or dislike something, not from modesty but from a general sense that by and large my views will be meaningless to others...
 

In this blog by Sean Olive clicky  he states that
 
"Finally, the tests found that experienced and inexperienced listeners (both male and female) tended to prefer the same loudspeakers, which has been confirmed in a more recent, larger study. The experienced listeners were simply more consistent in their responses. As it turned out, the experienced listeners were no more or no less immune to the effects of visual biases than inexperienced listeners."
 
which suggests that the differences are small between different listeners.
 
 
 
 
 

 

[poikkeus]

Another way of putting it: it's easy for some inexperienced listeners to justify their evaluations by stating them loudly, and easier for experienced listeners to regard the matter with a more detached attitude. I'm not sure I agree, but it's the kind of thinking that does down easy.
 

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Another way of putting it: it's easy for some inexperienced listeners to justify their evaluations by stating them loudly, and easier for experienced listeners to regard the matter with a more detached attitude. I'm not sure I agree, but it's the kind of thinking that does down easy.
 

 
No, that is not quite the point.
 
It is about competence not experience. The listeners that did best in Sean Olive's tests were competent i.e trained,  but more experienced listeners i.e Audio rag hacks were far worse. Olive shows trained listeners as the reference scoring 100 , audio retailers scored 35 and audio rag hacks were way down at 20.  So sitting in a room and listening for 30 years and writing about it does not make you any better at it but proper training does. The loud shouting hacks however do show misplaced trust in their capabilities. FWIW I've spent almost 40 years sitting in a room listening

 
 

 

[melomaniac]

forget the audio world. that wikipedia description, whether or not it refers to scientific study, aptly summarizes US politics and US politicians.
 
Quote:

Main Article: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning_kruger_effect 
 
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled people make poor decisions and reach erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the metacognitive ability to appreciate their mistakes.^[1] The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their own abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority. This leads to the situation in which less competent people rate their own ability higher than more competent people. It also explains why actual competence may weaken self-confidence. Competent individuals falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. As Kruger and Dunning (1999) conclude, "Thus, the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others" (p. 1127). ^[2]
 
One has got to wonder how often this sort of thing appears in the audio-critic world.

 

 

[EthanWiner]

Quote:

The listeners that did best in Sean Olive's tests were competent i.e trained,  but more experienced listeners i.e Audio rag hacks were far worse.

Indeed. Nothing beats years of using equalizers and compressors, and editing / splicing music and narration, and singing or playing a musical instrument at a high level, to make you a skilled listener. That's very different from sitting around listening to your phonograph all day.
 
--Ethan

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Indeed. Nothing beats years of using equalizers and compressors, and editing / splicing music and narration, and singing or playing a musical instrument at a high level, to make you a skilled listener. That's very different from sitting around listening to your phonograph all day.
 
--Ethan

Er, no not quite. Harman's listeners were formally trained in specific listening techniques, that was the point I was trying to make.
 

 

[EthanWiner]

^^^ I understand, but I wanted to agree that most magazine reviewers are amateur "listeners." This is why so many of them can't distinguish reality from fantasy.
 
--Ethan