[Glod]

Thanks txa for the impressions. I especially enjoyed the DT880 and HD650 comparison. I can't understand how I could forget to listen to the 701 last meet

Nevermind, there will be others

Yes, the 880 midrange is certainly worth mentioning. It showed a similar trick the K1000 does: it isolates the singer from the rest of the orchestra and places him/her in front, at least in classical music. That might not be very true to life, but I nevertheless I like it. On a side note, I think some recordings are deliberately trying to achieve this. The K1000 had better orchestra/singer positioning in the 3D but the DT880 very nicely exposed the singer. I also found that it had a good transparency and separation of instruments.

One of the differences you pointed out was the bass reproduction. Perhaps the very lowest, infra bass(?) Hmm - yes, the HD650 bass. If you ask me, it can be, with good effect, bridled in by the choice of head-phone cable; because I wouldn't like to be entirely without it. It just needs a good director. Some attention to the choice of source and IC's is probably also beneficial. All efforts to keep all the other excellent properties of the HD650

.

One thing that I did not like with the DT880, besides the relatively modest infra bass, was a kind of haze in front of the orchestra: like a thin curtain had been hung up between the orchestra and the audience, robbing the singer of that special feeling of human presence; making her sound flat and not living and breathing. Perhaps it was the source, which I of course did not remember which it was

[size=xx-small](perhaps a CEC CD5300)[/size]. Perhaps because I like tube amplification a lot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by txa ..."HD650 and DT880 - What I love about both of these phones is their soft delivery. They are both very articulate and revealing, yet very, very easy to listen to and non-fatiguing. - As noted, the DT880 has a more prominent high-end, but it's out of the presence region and mostly accentuates the air and ambiance in the recording. With overly-bright recordings, it can be fatiguing at louder volumes, but it's much more a matter of the recording. Everything about the delivery of the 880 is soft, with a sense of air. At low volumes it's delicious, and it scales very well with good recordings. - The 650 has a midrange to die for. Liquid, smooth, with 3D body and excellent integration with the rest of the spectrum. Much better midrange than the 880. Although it lacks the 880's air, it has good detail througout. - The one drawback for me with the 650 has been it's abundance of bass. I guess it's both a pro and a con. With my 70's rock and some other, poorer recordings, the bass fullness has been a boon. With rhytymic jazz (lee ritenour, joyce cooling, rippingtons, etc.), the bass is TOO full. I much prefer the 880s here. - Based on these observations, I've used the 880s mostly with my good recordings and the 650's with bass-light jazz and poorer recordings. My expectation for the 701 was that it could marry these 2 phones into a best of all worlds. In some cases it did, in others, it has not."...

 

[Cyrilix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glod One thing that I did not like with the DT880, besides the relatively modest infra bass, was a kind of haze in front of the orchestra: like a thin curtain had been hung up between the orchestra and the audience, robbing the singer of that special feeling of human presence; making her sound flat and not living and breathing. Perhaps it was the source, which I of course did not remember which it was [size=xx-small](perhaps a CEC CD5300)[/size]. Perhaps because I like tube amplification a lot.

*Gasp* Could we be hearing a veil on the DT880s?

 

[Solude]

Compared to the Senn 650 on my gear the Beyer 880 was quite distant and dry sounding. Without using a metre I'd be running the Beyer 880 at much higher levels to reach the same clarity as the Senn 650. When running dB for dB the Beyer certainly did have a viel, really a sense of distance and lack of life that was absent of involvement

 

[fewtch]

LOL... now people are saying the DT880 has a veil compared to Senns...

By far the clearest, most involving headphone I've ever had the pleasure of putting on my head, and they're veiled/distant?

Sorry, but I got a pretty good laugh at this one (hopefully at nobody's expense

). The idea of DT880 being veiled is so far out of my experience that it's funny to me.

 

[spinali]

Quote:

When running dB for dB the Beyer certainly did have a viel, really a sense of distance and lack of life that was absent of involvement

I've experienced what you're referring to, but for me, it turns out to be one the DT880's virtues. I don't think I've ever heard anything like a veil, but definitely there's a distance. On bombastic punk like the Sex Pistols, the effect is fantastic, because the "distance", as it were, is met more than half way by the music. On much classical, this effect contributes to a feeling of elegance and quiet power that I've not heard on any other headphone.

With amping, the distance closes a bit. Still, my DT880 shows versatility over a wide range of music. The only reason why the K701 intrigues me is that it's said to add more complexity to an equation that's solved most of my music woes.

 

[warpdriver]

Using the word "Veil" to describe the 880 is not the right word. "Distance" is not the same as "Veil". A Veil usually implies that things sound muffled somehow, like a filter is held in front, rolling off the high frequencies (since bass isn't affected by a filter). The 880 clearly has no issues with high frequencies being affected.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by warpdriver Using the word "Veil" to describe the 880 is not the right word. "Distance" is not the same as "Veil". A Veil usually implies that things sound muffled somehow, like a filter is held in front, rolling off the high frequencies. The 880 clearly has no issues with high frequencies being affected.

Are the Senn HD650's really "closer" sounding than DT880? If so, they're a lot more different than HD580/600 than I suspected... or maybe the perception of this just varies from person to person.

 

[warpdriver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch Are the Senn HD650's really "closer" sounding than DT880? If so, they're a lot more different than HD580/600 than I suspected... or maybe the perception of this just varies from person to person.

The 650's have more vocal presence, hence the singers do seem more up close and personal, like they got off the stage and are wandering around the audience, whereas the band is still at the front of the room, that is my main impression whenever I hear the Senns.

 

[txa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by warpdriver The 650's have more vocal presence, hence the singers do seem more up close and personal, like they got off the stage and are wandering around the audience, whereas the band is still at the front of the room, that is my main impression whenever I hear the Senns.

I would agree completely with this. I've seen the words 'liviness' or 'bright' used synonmous with more up-front, but there is a distinction. The 880 is more lively than the 650, but the 650 mids are up front and personal - at least that's what I hear. I can not compare them to the 600 and am curious about this.

 

[fewtch]

That probably explains it... I actually listen mostly to instrumental music, and (female) vocals quite rarely (got to remember how drastically our chosen genres affect perception of our gear, it's an easy thing to forget).

 

[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch (got to remember how drastically our chosen genres affect perception of our gear, it's an easy thing to forget).

Most definitely; even in that we seem to unconsciously build up a "mental equalization" that mirrors our favorite kind of music's "areas of intensity". Hope I've had myself understood

 

[Glod]

Ahhr - I just lost a bit more elaborate version of what I wanted to add.

I do not find the DT880 "veiled" as little as I find that that is an exhaustive way of describing the HD650. At the NL/D/B meet recently, I listened to the Beyers via a Black Cube Linear but unfortunately I cannot recall which source was used

. In that setup I found the singer to stand at the front of the stage and the orchestra located in a ditch. Maybe that was the organisation during the recording event. Who knows? If that was the case: Well done Beyer!

But, somehow, I have the feeling that this impression was due to that slightly emphasis on a particular part of the midrange, IMHO, the DT880 has. Don't misinterpret me now; I do like the Beyers. They are certainly in my taste! But if I have to choose between them and the HD650, I would have to pick the Senns. IMO, they have a more integrated presentation, be it with a sound from the mid row of the concert hall.

 

[TheMooN]

Good evening Ladies and Gentlemen .

I am pretty clueless where it comes to good quality headphones and have been of late avidly digesting information from these excellent forums .

Having just read thro many threads such as txa's most informative DT880, HD650, K701 Review I am rather overwhelmed with the choice available and I would be most grateful for any advice regarding which of the phones in the DT880, HD650, K701 price range (Or any other's suggested ) might compliment well with my current system and audio tastes.

I am running a Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista 3D CD player through a Nu-Vista M3 Super Integrated Amp + Additional M3 Power Unit ( Also occasionally run an A3 CD player )

I listen mainly to Classical and Classical Vocals ranging from Andras Scholl to Emma Kirkby ~ Various Jazz Styles , Rat Pack and similar , Hendrix , Motown with the occasional bit of 70's and 80's thrown in .

Thanks !!!

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glod But if I have to choose between them and the HD650, I would have to pick the Senns. IMO, they have a more integrated presentation, be it with a sound from the mid row of the concert hall.

Apparently you've never had the classic DT880 experience where the headphones vanish off your head and the music sounds live. This is "perfect" integration, in that the illusion of live music is complete! I guess a lot of people don't experience this, but check out other threads... a lot of people do as well. I don't know about HD650, but this never even remotely happened to me with HD580/600, in the three years I owned them. They were pleasant to listen to, but never pulled off the "miracles" I've heard from DT880.

It's sort of depressing to realize that a lot of people never truly 'get' the DT880, perhaps due to focusing on some trivial aspect like the lead singer being slightly further back on stage, or whatever. IMO it's failing to see the forest for the trees... all too common around here. Not that you necessarily fall into this category... I have no way of really knowing, of course -- only you do.

 

[Cyrilix]

Don't worry, don't worry, I love my DT880s.

I was just fanning the flames with that veil comment (and it was a joke anyway).