[Jam_Master_J]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solude Not in the least. Sound engineers typically adjust input levels from one input relative to another not EQ levels. Ie bass, drums, guitar, vocals are at level appropriate to each other.

I mean in the sense that the engineer is human and thus has the same rolled off hearing. This means that a flat headphone shouldn't sound light in the bass since the engineer would naturally mix in a fashion that sounds correct, not msing to be flat.

 

[Drakemoor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimmer 1) There are no hig-end that are easily driven. Probably only the HD 595 is an exception, but some people put them only to the middle class. 2) It's not underpowered, it's plain low-end. You will be missing part of fidelidy, resolution, expression, clarity...

i'd say buying anything more would be a waste at this price range, instead of saying the amp itself is of poor quality sound wise, what i want to know is will it suffer from a loss of quality from not being able to deliver enough current to the cans?

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab So based on that graph, the DT880 would have perceived light bass, which, IMO, it does.

Not only is it *not* light to my ears, but on occasion the DT880 has a little too much bass IMO.

A proper bass response means you don't "hear" the bass as something separate from the rest of the spectrum, but rather you hear musical instruments that sound as they should. If it stands out, it's boosted. A headphone that's notable for "great bass" is probably boosted, because you shouldn't be noticing it or thinking there's anything special.

Quote:

Originally Posted by herroyuihk Good appoint. I think too many people desire for too many bass

Agreed... there's an epidemic of bassheads around here, not to mention a lot of people prefer lower fidelity (euphonic) sound to higher fidelity (accurate) sound. It's probably attributable to musical preferences, as much music is poorly recorded and doesn't sound good with more accurate gear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drakemoor lets say the CMOY is drastically underpowered, what will i be missing out? Lack of volume? Lack of bass?

Lack of good dynamics, and potential clipping distortion with more dynamic music.

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Originally Posted by Skylab Well, we all hear things differently. But I'm far from the only one that thinks the DT880 is light in the bass. Clearly so does Beyer, since both the DT990 and DT770 have much more bass than the DT880.

Huh? I don't follow your logic. The DT880 (at least until recently) is/was Beyer's highest end headphone, and it makes sense that they would be careful not to boost the bass with their reference headphone, retaining a relatively flat sonic signature.

 

[Skylab]

Well, we all hear things differently. But I'm far from the only one that thinks the DT880 is light in the bass. Clearly so does Beyer, since both the DT990 and DT770 have much more bass than the DT880.

 

[Pace]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab You guys are forgetting about Fletcher-Munson curves. Bass that measures flat does not sound flat, because human ears become less sensitive as frequency declines in the last 2 bass octaves, and does so more or less logorithmically, so to "hear" flat bass, one actually needs a rising bass response below 80 Hz or so. So based on that graph, the DT880 would have perceived light bass, which, IMO, it does.

I've never quite understood the logic behind this theory. Even if peoples hearing curve means that we require more SPL at lower frequencies, with music, you should always assume that the music has been recorded with equipment with flat FR. With this assumption it would also sound the most natural (and contain just the right amount of lowest frequencies) when played back with equipment with flat FR. Otherwise you'd have to be buying different gear for every piece of music you listen to; if you have unlimited moneysupply, then why not do so, but atleast I don't, so I compromise.

In other words, I feel that it's not the headphones resposibility to over-emphasize the lowest frequencies.

 

[Seijang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch Not only is it *not* light to my ears, but on occasion the DT880 has a little too much bass IMO. A proper bass response means you don't "hear" the bass as something separate from the rest of the spectrum, but rather you hear musical instruments that sound as they should. If it stands out, it's boosted. A headphone that's notable for "great bass" is probably boosted, because you shouldn't be noticing it or thinking there's anything special. Agreed... there's an epidemic of bassheads around here, not to mention a lot of people prefer lower fidelity (euphonic) sound to higher fidelity (accurate) sound. It's probably attributable to musical preferences, as much music is poorly recorded and doesn't sound good with more accurate gear. Lack of good dynamics, and potential clipping distortion with more dynamic music. Huh? I don't follow your logic. The DT880 (at least until recently) is/was Beyer's highest end headphone, and it makes sense that they would be careful not to boost the bass with their reference headphone, retaining a relatively flat sonic signature.

Fewtch. You NEVER feel like the DT880s are light on the bass soemtimes? (or maybe more accurate, the decay is too fast?). I love my DT880s. A lot. A lot a lot. Sometimes I'm surprised by the depth and the strength of the bass attack of the DT880s, and how accurate it feels. And how *tight* that bass is. But sometimes with some music everything is right except for a small bit of impact or the bass decays too fast. I don't know. I've been listening pretty hard the past few days.

 

[fewtch]

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Originally Posted by Seijang Fewtch. You NEVER feel like the DT880s are light on the bass soemtimes?

I feel the bass is a bit lacking in impact for certain rock music (which I rarely listen to), but actual bass amount? No, like I said if anything they have a bit too much for my tastes.

Quote:

(or maybe more accurate, the decay is too fast?). I love my DT880s. A lot. A lot a lot. Sometimes I'm surprised by the depth and the strength of the bass attack of the DT880s, and how accurate it feels. And how *tight* that bass is. But sometimes with some music everything is right except for a small bit of impact or the bass decays too fast.

I thought you were talking about bass amount, not bass impact. Sure, it's not a very impactful bass but I don't really listen to anything that requires a lot of bass impact these days. If anything I much prefer an airier, smooth bass over subwoofer-like thump (ugghh). I don't consider "bass thump" to be a hi-fi characteristic... you can get it from Bose, Sony V600 or any cheap piece of crap out there.

As far as bass "decaying too fast" -- your ears must be accustomed to bumped-up midbass, that's all I can think of. Plenty of it to be found out there, in many expensive as well as cheap dynamic headphones. I have to applaud Beyer bigtime for actually giving us high bass fidelity rather than the usual midbass hump.

I just can't believe it when people criticize this better-than-usual bass fidelity found in the DT880... it's maddening. Those who dislike DT880's bass: Get a new pair of ears, they're at fault and not the headphones.

 

[silence57]

Make sure you can drive these hard to drive phones.

 

[Seijang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch I feel the bass is a bit lacking in impact for certain rock music (which I rarely listen to), but actual bass amount? No, like I said if anything they have a bit too much for my tastes. I thought you were talking about bass amount, not bass impact. Sure, it's not a very impactful bass but I don't really listen to anything that requires a lot of bass impact these days. If anything I much prefer an airier, smooth bass over subwoofer-like thump (ugghh). I don't consider "bass thump" to be a hi-fi characteristic... you can get it from Bose, Sony V600 or any cheap piece of crap out there.

Yeah I agree, I don't want a subwoofer thump, I want an accurate representation of how the artist wanted the music to sound. Not being omnipotent, I can only do the small misguided amount on my part to achieve that particular sound. That's why the DT880s have been so great! They really fit with almost any kind of music I've thrown at it. Even with slower songs that have bass I can feel my head vibrate and I get that guttural feeling that comes with good, low bass.

But when a song is bassy and fast, the headphones don't seem to able to translate that sort of magic from a song. And although I'm not sure what is lacking, I am fairly sure whatever is lacking causes it to sound less bassy. I really regret this one defect, because for someone like me, the relatively cheap DT880s are THE perfect headphones. A mixture of high quality and sound with an affordable price.

EDIT:
I listen to a lot of genres of music. From techno, trance, rock, pop, jazzy, present day music, 70's, 80's, metal, orchestrals, classical..blah blah. Anything that has a great melody and interests my peculiar tastes becomes part of my collection.

 

[fewtch]

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Originally Posted by Seijang Yeah I agree, I don't want a subwoofer thump, I want an accurate representation of how the artist wanted the music to sound. Not being omnipotent, I can only do the small misguided amount on my part to achieve that particular sound. That's why the DT880s have been so great! They really fit with almost any kind of music I've thrown at it. Even with slower songs that have bass I can feel my head vibrate and I get that guttural feeling that comes with good, low bass. But when a song is bassy and fast, the headphones don't seem to able to translate that sort of magic from a song.

I'm confused... you say the DT880 is really great, fitting with almost any kind of music you throw at it, then in the next sentence you criticize its bass as being inadequate with some music. Make up your mind...

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And although I'm not sure what is lacking, I am fairly sure whatever is lacking causes it to sound less bassy. I really regret this one defect,

As far as I'm concerned nothing is lacking in the headphones. Criticize your own basshead tendencies, not the headphones. PLEASE! Here we have a headphone that actually does bass right compared to most other dynamic cans... sub bass extension all the way down to 20Hz, no midbass hump, and you're calling this a defect!!

I'm sure what is lacking: Your appreciation for high fidelity bass. That's fine, but when you criticize the headphones for your own faults, or the crapola recordings you listen to...

P.S. get a pair of Koss KSC-75 or something, that should take care of the crappy recordings. If you really feel they're great for most music, spending an additional $20 for Koss to listen to poorly recorded music won't break anyone's bank account. People seem to expect the impossible around here, that a pair of high end cans should make bad recordings sound good.

 

[konstantinos]

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Originally Posted by rimmer Meier Audio should have some left. Link is on top of the page.

Ah, yes I've checked Meier Audio. I was wondering if these can be found anywhere else for less

Also: fewtch, good point and happy 7000th post!

 

[Seijang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fewtch I'm confused... you say the DT880 is really great, fitting with almost any kind of music you throw at it, then in the next sentence you criticize its bass as being inadequate with some music. Make up your mind... As far as I'm concerned nothing is lacking in the headphones. Criticize your own basshead tendencies, not the headphones. PLEASE! Here we have a headphone that actually does bass right compared to most other dynamic cans... sub bass extension all the way down to 20Hz, no midbass hump, and you're calling this a defect!! I'm sure what is lacking: Your appreciation for high fidelity bass. That's fine, but when you criticize the headphones for your own faults, or the crapola recordings you listen to... P.S. get a pair of Koss KSC-75 or something, that should take care of the crappy recordings. If you really feel they're great for most music, spending an additional $20 for Koss to listen to poorly recorded music won't break anyone's bank account. People seem to expect the impossible around here, that a pair of high end cans should make bad recordings sound good.

Wow fewtch, you've got a real diplomatic way of saying things. First off, I hate your attitude. That condescending tone is freaking annoying, as if you're the only big dog around here that has golden ears. Well I don't, I love my music, I love my DT880s, and you are so full of it if you think my music is all bad quality recordings.

There was nothing confusing about my post, and you know it. I said that it was great with anything I threw at it, it was just that when the song was bassy and fast, it was still great, but it wasn't the best sound I thought I could find.

Any maybe we should be criticizing your flamewar tendencies, as well as your abilities to hear too much bass in anything you listen to. Maybe its you with the problem, not me. I never accused you of being a high/midrange fanatic, so keep your labels off of me, you pompous twit.

God, I have one little complaint with a pair of cans that I find otherwise perfect and the resident bug eyed crazed fanboy jumps on top of me and starts clawing away. Back off fewtch, unless you want this thread to fall apart.

I am so upset at his attitude, I'm sorry.

I love the DT880s, and no one will tell me different. I will reiterate that it fails to recreate the atmosphere that is right for certain bassy fast paced music, but that music is a small part of what I listen to, so the DT880s is nearly perfect, but its one defect is keeping me from saying the cans are perfect.

Maybe you're right fewtch. Maybe you have the only valid viewpoint on these headphones. Maybe we should all listen quietly as you run around these forums championing the DT880s as the king of the world, and anyone else who owns them and says different should be crucified and beaten senseless. At any rate, I'm done with you, and your flaming tendencies.

 

[konstantinos]

(For the record, my "good point" remark in my previous post was in reference to the "...Here we have a headphone that actually does bass right compared to most other dynamic cans... sub bass extension all the way down to 20Hz, no midbass hump..." part of fewtch's post. The emphasis caught my eye, and I agreed with that bit I've read.)

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

I just can't believe it when people criticize this better-than-usual bass fidelity found in the DT880... it's maddening. Those who dislike DT880's bass: Get a new pair of ears, they're at fault and not the headphones.

OK, you are the only person who hears well, huh? You must have been having a bad night. That kind of comment is out of line.

The DT880's are GREAT headphones, no doubt. You don't need to defend them. But the fact that you prefer their bass presentation does not make it the best there is for everyone. The fact remains, and you need only read about any of John Atkinson's louspeaker measurements to know this, ruler flat bass response will be perceived as being too light. Bass is not like midrange and treble in this way.

But beyond what's technically correct, music is to be enjoyed. The fact that I prefer the bass balance of my (all Headphile modded) Gradop HF-1's, Senn HD650's, and Beyer DT770's ALL over the DT880 only means that is what *I* prefer. The fact that I do prefer them, however, most certainly does not mean my ears are somehow, at fault. Like you, I'm at liberty to enjoy whatever sonic presentation I like, as is everyone here.

 

[Steve999]

You would think so, but as a practical matter, if you have the mid-bass measuring at 0 db in a headphone the way headroom measures it, it will come out very light, very deficient.

Whether the mids are recessed on the DT880s is sort of a relative question. The highs are a little tipped up on the DT880. The mids are about perfectly matched with the bass, really perhaps just a little forward compared to the bass, but the mids are are perhaps a little recessed compared to the highs, IMHO.

Take a look at headroom at the Senn HD595 graph... very similar to the DT880 out to about 3,000 hertz, and then the Senn is reserved in upper mids and treble while the DT880 comes out full force. These are two of the best-measuring and technically performing headphones out there. If someone could just split the difference as to how they handle the treble, now that would be something.

This is after a few days of obsessing over my new DT880s. All IMHO.

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Originally Posted by atx If anything, that graph supports my ears. There's too much bass at the 60-300 hz level. That should be 0 db. The mids, which is 5k - 7k, is below 0db which to my ears sounds recessed.