[SilverEars]

What is the correct meaning of bit-perfect and why can't you bit-perfect if you use EQ?

 

[XTF1]

Some thoughts. How much different is this from a phone/DAP with it's own internal audio chip, you EQ with usb audio player pro? I don't think there is a difference besides the profiles you get from Moondrop, and the inferior software. Because the cable has the DAC built in, correct?

The big difference is that the DSP settings follow the IEM...

My question is, what is hardware EQ vs software EQ

No difference, it's all done in the digital domain upstream of the DAC, either through software libraries (requires enough CPU power...) or specialized hardware (DSP...).

This product is basically a DAC cable with new iem

This product is a USB-bridge + DSP + DAC + Amp, all integrated in the connector. Unknown quality & performance...

the niche is that they provide profiles to switch the EQ settings

Not really... The niche (really the key IMO) is that the EQ settings follow the IEM.

I'm not so keen in EQ personally, but I understand when people use it for minor tonal changes.

Up to now, the Moondrop Quarks-DSP, Droplet, JIU and Tanchjim Zero, One, Tanya have all been entry-level IEMs. The USB-C DSP was a way to "correct" and personalize these IEMs to most listeners. MAY's price is hovering on mid-tier IEMs, so it's going to be interesting to see if the the integrated HW is up to the task.

I wonder how much consistency in the response of Moondrop iems before EQ. I need to see the measurement raw before EQ and after of several samples. I will be convinced once that is shown.

Fair point. I don't think there is a built-in correction, but with a fixed cable, it would be technically possible: a non-modifiable Factory EQ adjusted to each IEM + a user personalized EQ. I don't think we're there yet...

 

[XTF1]

Hmm, as I read it, you can use premade profiles make your own custom profiles or even download other people's. So a lot of interaction and usage of the app seems needed, if you want to do these things. Also, I would most likely want to adjust my own profile quite a few times before I end up with a very good one.
So I do think you need to use the app quite a bit.

Fair point. If you are an endless tinkerer... this may not the best choice, I agree. However, it does answer one of the most common rant about targets you can read on Head-Fi and elsewhere: "this IEM target just does not work for me...". Now, you have an IEM that can be adapted to whatever is right for you... This no different, but much more flexible, than the micro switches or swappable nozzles that we see on more and more IEMs.

And while it is usable, it's really not good in mo opinion. However, given the price point, I can live with it, I just really would love to see it improved.

I also hope they improve the app (it can't be much worse!). Though some of the limitations are probably HW-related (number of filters...).

 

[XTF1]

What is the correct meaning of bit-perfect and why can't you bit-perfect if you use EQ?

I believe the common interpretation of bit-perfect is when the "digital output" is exactly the same as the "digital input" (not a single bit difference). So, from that respect, applying some EQ in the digital domain is never 'bit-perfect', there is a difference. But it does not mean you "lose something"--one of the biggest misconceptions of EQ, IMHO. EQ is no different from what Studio Engineers do to produce a record: they adjust the different instruments / mics inputs so that the final record represents what the Artist(s) wanted to express. EQ adjusts the track (the record) so that it sounds as intended through your IEMs and your ears... or differently if it's what you prefer.

 

[XTF1]

Maybe time for disclaimer: I have no stake or interest in Moondrop whatsoever! I just think it's a great concept !!!
I own the Moondrop Quarks-DSP & Droplet (fixed cable and fixed EQ settings, no app support), JIU (fixed cable), FreeDSP (3x of them, used with other IEMs) & CDSP (2x and another one on order) cables, and I now have MAY on order... I also own the DSP versions of the Tanchjim Zero, One (detachable cable), and Tanya IEMs.
And for the source... So far, I like the new Hiby M300 quite a bit: audio spec on the low side... but a USB-C connector--all what I need for these DSP-enabled IEM's--plus Android 13 and a decent CPU & screen. I also use these USB-C IEMs/cables with my laptops (work and home) and my iPhone (with a ddHifi TC28i adapter).
On my to-do list: testing the FreeDSP with some easy to drive headphones...

 

[RumbleWeed]

Some thoughts. How much different is this from a phone/DAP with it's own internal audio chip, you EQ with usb audio player pro? I don't think there is a difference besides the profiles you get from Moondrop, and the inferior software. Because the cable has the DAC built in, correct?

In this respect, the eq profiles are something new, but not the eq itself. My question is, what is hardware EQ vs software EQ. I imagine hardware would be components being switched like crossover switches on iems. You know, the treble or bass boost on certain items. Isn't this basically the same as software EQ app and applying to internal DACs? It's just that the DAC is external in this case.

This product is basically a DAC cable with new iem, but the niche is that they provide profiles to switch the EQ settings

Totally agree with all your comments but i m wondering & hoping the real difference with this new Moondrop approach is the EQ profiles wether it be Moondrop's or your own are saved to the hardware which would mean no matter what source the iem/cable combo is attached to the EQ profile stays the same which is different from a usb DAC & Software EQ combo, well 99.9% of them anyway?
The other aspect of this Moondrop approach is "May" has been purposely engineered to be EQ'd which as"Silverears" points out isn't the case with a lot of IEM's, so with this this in mind "May" should react very well to EQ boosts & cuts?
I must stress, all the above are just my personal opinion's and i have not heard "May" or had anything confirmed by Moondrop

 

[RumbleWeed]

Maybe time for disclaimer: I have no stake or interest in Moondrop whatsoever! I just think it's a great concept !!!
I own the Moondrop Quarks-DSP & Droplet (fixed cable and fixed EQ settings, no app support), JIU (fixed cable), FreeDSP (3x of them, used with other IEMs) & CDSP (2x and another one on order) cables, and I now have MAY on order... I also own the DSP versions of the Tanchjim Zero, One (detachable cable), and Tanya IEMs.
And for the source... So far, I like the new Hiby M300 quite a bit: audio spec on the low side... but a USB-C connector--all what I need for these DSP-enabled IEM's--plus Android 13 and a decent CPU & screen. I also use these USB-C IEMs/cables with my laptops (work and home) and my iPhone (with a ddHifi TC28i adapter).
On my to-do list: testing the FreeDSP with some easy to drive headphones...

This is totally correct
I have a home recording studio and and it took me some time to understand the difference between software EQ and Analog EQ !
There are a few complex differences between Soft & Hardware EQ but to simplify it Software EQ is much better at Surgical problem solving Equalisation and not so good at extreme boosts & cuts in contrast to Analog EQ which is much better at Sound shaping & extreme boosts cuts which when done with Software EQ can introduce digital artifacts, so as long as your boosts & cuts with digital EQ are not to extreme all is good
I'm in the same camp and just cannot understand why EQ is so frowned upon in the audiophile community? Don't get me wrong i understand the "as the artist intended" & "bit perfect"
BUT? If you have saved for a set of In-Ear Monitor which cost you over a £1000 and the ONLY thing that is stopping you absaloutly loving them is they need a couple of dB in the Sub-Bass or hi-end sparkle why not just use a "decent" EQ to rectify it?
After all this is exactly what the manufacturer of said IEM did when creating the IEM in the first place wether that be passive or digital Frequency Response Equalisation!
The way i see it Tip & Cable Rolling is Passive Equalisation and Software EQ is digital Equalisation which is exactly the same as the IEM manufacturer using Sound Tubes, Chambers ect.. which is Passive EQ and DSP boards which is Digital EQ!
Once again, these are only MY thoughts on the subject and many people will disagree and that's all good, "horses for course" & "viraty is the spice for life"

 

[XTF1]

Totally agree with all your comments but i m wondering & hoping the real difference with this new Moondrop approach is the EQ profiles wether it be Moondrop's or your own are saved to the hardware which would mean no matter what source the iem/cable combo is attached to the EQ profile stays the same which is different from a usb DAC & Software EQ combo, well 99.9% of them anyway?
The other aspect of this Moondrop approach is "May" has been purposely engineered to be EQ'd which as"Silverears" points out isn't the case with a lot of IEM's, so with this this in mind "May" should react very well to EQ boosts & cuts?
I must stress, all the above are just my personal opinion's and i have not heard "May" or had anything confirmed by Moondrop

This is another interesting aspect of the DSP concept: there are inevitable tradeoffs when tuning an IEM, especially an entry-level one (what you correctly call “passive EQ”). If it’s planned to be use with a DSP cableDSP, the IEM frequency response becomes less important, and things such as low-distortion or other characteristics can become the main focus. Although not entry-level, this is exactly what Audeze did with the original iSine 10 & 20: garbage FR, but extremely low distortion, making them very EQ-friendly (I bought an open box iSine 10 and love it, even if it’s very inconvenient to wear).
On the other hand, EQ is a lot easier when you only need a few small corrections and, as you said, you don’t want to go too wild on the EQ. If Moondrop MAY sounds better than JIU to start with, it could be a better starting point for a personalized EQ.

 

[Eiffel]

Wonder if it will be also a standard, non USB-C edition.
It would be easy to sell it with a standard cable instead of this.

 

[tvrboy]

Just got my May ... unfortunately I have to say this is the first headphone I've ever bought that I need to return. The main reason being, the ear tips are so small I cannot get them onto the nozzle, even after trying some maneuvers with paper clips. They were clearly made for some other product with a smaller nozzle size. After trying for ten minutes, I gave up. I put on some tips from my Truthear Zero to be able to take a quick listen but come on ... tips that fit on the nozzle is like IEM basics 101. It's clear they spent a LOT of time and effort getting the look of the headphone and its packaging right and I think it's by far the best looking sub-$100 IEM so ... why didn't they spend a few cents to get tips that fit instead of re-using ones that were obviously made for another product?

I should say I'm not an IEM expert so maybe tips that are super hard to get on is normal, but I have four other IEMs and none of them required any effort to put the tips on. With the May tips I literally cannot do it. I'm sure it's possible - I have already read some reviews from users who obviously managed to do it - but in general products (of any type, not just audio) shouldn't be this hard to use or require you to come up with unique solutions or "hacks" just to get them working out of the box.

A lot of other things about this headphone just annoy. The FAQ and warranty card that shipped with it are in Chinese only. The user agreement of the app and privacy policy of the app are in Chinese only which will annoy many international buyers (anyone from Moondrop need a translator? I'll do it for a Blessing 3...) The lack of English versions is a problem for those who are worried about data privacy, as the app worryingly requires access to all your files in order to work. The app seems to lose connection to the headphone every so often. Although the music doesn't stop, I have to re-insert the cable and grant the app access to the headphones again to be able to change the EQ settings. After I pause or stop a song, there is a soft whining sound for a few seconds which I've seen mentioned in other reviews.

Really a shame as I think it sounds decent, looks great, and the general concept is solid. I just can't live with the unusable tips, security concerns, and other various annoyances. If I didn't have the Zero tips around I'd have to return it unheard as I'm sure many others will do.

 

[Ynot1]

This is a great opportunity for someone to make a tool. Like the mmcx removal tool, tip bore resizing tool could be interesting. I know there are sleeves to use bigger bore tips on smaller sound tubes. But I suspect the tip has to be stretched on this one.

 

[Eiffel]

The main reason being, the ear tips are so small I cannot get them onto the nozzle, even after trying some maneuvers with paper clips. They were clearly made for some other product with a smaller nozzle size. After trying for ten minutes, I gave up. I put on some tips from my Truthear Zero to be able to take a quick listen but come on ... tips that fit on the nozzle is like IEM basics 101. It's clear they spent a LOT of time and effort getting the look of the headphone and its packaging right and I think it's by far the best looking sub-$100 IEM so ... why didn't they spend a few cents to get tips that fit instead of re-using ones that were obviously made for another product?

I had same issue with CHU II. The tips diameter is less than 3mm while the CHU II nozzle, has about 5mm.
I was able to put them on, but after about 10 minutes each.
I guess they had the tips from previous versions, that don't have nozzles with removable filter.
In the end I just put some cheap foam tips of 4.5mm instead the provided ones.