[RRod]

  Just got ahold of another digital copy of the same album, and here is track No1:
 

 
Looks pretty standard. Note no cutoff at 20kHz, though there isn't a lot of musical content above that.

 

[Peti]

Yeah, it looks like a healthy 24/192 audio file but the image makes mo wondering if it's worth keeping this big file for pretty much nothing. Gotta make a downconverted file from it to properly A/B them and then we will see..

 

[Roseval]

Inherent to DSD is the high quantization noise.
It should be filtered.
The standard says filtering at 50 kHz but one might decide to use a lower value.
 
There are 2 options:
The original DSD doesn’t contain information above 22 kHz
Foobar decides to limit the conversion to 22Khz
 
A tool like MusicScope can analyze the DSD
Examples can be found here: http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/AudioTools/Spectrum.htm

 

[Joe Bloggs]

You did not mention how you performed the downconversion, or how you're reading DSDs with foobar, which as far as I know doesn't support this natively.

I'm using foo_input_SACD, which has a separate control panel in foobar's preferences that you might have missed:



In order for high sample rate conversions to PCM to make sense, you would first have to set the PCM output sample rate of the SACD input plugin to the highest of 352800 as shown here. Note that there are also several "DSD2PCM" modes, of which I believe "Multistage (Doubl-Precision)" is the highest quality mode that does not filter out the high frequencies that are susceptible to noise.

Now, if by resampling to 24/192 you mean you put a Resampler DSP in DSP manager of the Convert menu, that's not what you should be doing. Try removing all DSP Resamplers and check the sample rate of the output file. That's the actual sample rate that whatever SACD / DSD input plugin you're using is outputting at. You might very well be inputting SACD at 44100Hz sample rate and resampling that to 192kHz, which would explain the results you're getting and is also the default behaviour of foo_input_SACD, I believe.

 

[Peti]

You did not mention how you performed the downconversion, or how you're reading DSDs with foobar, which as far as I know doesn't support this natively.

I'm using foo_input_SACD, which has a separate control panel in foobar's preferences that you might have missed:



In order for high sample rate conversions to PCM to make sense, you would first have to set the PCM output sample rate of the SACD input plugin to the highest of 352800 as shown here. Note that there are also several "DSD2PCM" modes, of which I believe "Multistage (Doubl-Precision)" is the highest quality mode that does not filter out the high frequencies that are susceptible to noise.

Now, if by resampling to 24/192 you mean you put a Resampler DSP in DSP manager of the Convert menu, that's not what you should be doing. Try removing all DSP Resamplers and check the sample rate of the output file. That's the actual sample rate that whatever SACD / DSD input plugin you're using is outputting at. You might very well be inputting SACD at 44100Hz sample rate and resampling that to 192kHz, which would explain the results you're getting and is also the default behaviour of foo_input_SACD, I believe.

Oh, that's something I didn't think about even though I have the SACD plugin! Thanks for the detailed answer, I shall try this way once I got home.

 

[spruce music]

Sonore used to have a nice free simple bit of software for doing DSD to PCM conversion. I have used it on the same files you downloaded. The software was on their website. It was a DSD 2 FLAC conversion.

http://www.rendu.sonore.us/software.html

 

[TheGrumpyOldMan]

Unfortunately I probably can't help with your specific issue. But I have "down"sampled my few DSD-native albums for more practical usage, and looked quite thoroughly into the whole issue as a matter of curiosity, and two of the more consistent take-aways were:
1) The software doing the conversions matters, specifically the kind of filtering algorithm implemented, due the noise issue mentioned in other posts. So it might indeed be the foobar plugin or its settings. An easy-ish way to find out is trying a different converter, even if it's just a trial version, should give you enough of a sample for comparison. Alas I'm mostly on OS X these days so I can't make a specific recommendation in your case.
2) Since the DSD rates are based off the standard CD 44.1kHz rate, most articles I read recommend that the converted PCM rates also be a multiple of that for a more straight-forward conversion (i.e in your case 88.2 instead of 96, or 176.4 if supported) Might be worth a shot, easy to do, if only to see if it has any impact whatsoever?
 
Keep us posted!

 

[Peti]

Sonore used to have a nice free simple bit of software for doing DSD to PCM conversion. I have used it on the same files you downloaded. The software was on their website. It was a DSD 2 FLAC conversion.

http://www.rendu.sonore.us/software.html

 
 

  Unfortunately I probably can't help with your specific issue. But I have "down"sampled my few DSD-native albums for more practical usage, and looked quite thoroughly into the whole issue as a matter of curiosity, and two of the more consistent take-aways were:
1) The software doing the conversions matters, specifically the kind of filtering algorithm implemented, due the noise issue mentioned in other posts. So it might indeed be the foobar plugin or its settings. An easy-ish way to find out is trying a different converter, even if it's just a trial version, should give you enough of a sample for comparison. Alas I'm mostly on OS X these days so I can't make a specific recommendation in your case.
2) Since the DSD rates are based off the standard CD 44.1kHz rate, most articles I read recommend that the converted PCM rates also be a multiple of that for a more straight-forward conversion (i.e in your case 88.2 instead of 96, or 176.4 if supported) Might be worth a shot, easy to do, if only to see if it has any impact whatsoever?
 
Keep us posted!

 
Thank you guys! To be honest with you I just got fed up with all this as it was too confusing for my simple brain so I just deleted my digital files. Now I have asked a friend of mine to make a digital copy of his Sennheiser Test cd through his Play Station 3 and I'm waiting for that file. Once I have it, I will make the necessary steps suggested above to get to the bottom of this. Will keep you posted and thanks for the feedbacks!
 

 
I'm not sure if it's native dsd though! (

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Did you try changing foobar's decoding config per my post?

 

[Peti]

Did you try changing foobar's decoding config per my post?

Yes Sir! Once I get the DSD file I will do the transfer per your suggestions to see if there's a difference!

 

[Peti]

Did you try changing foobar's decoding config per my post?

Just received the DSD file and trying to convert it to 88.2/24 and removed the Resampler from the equation as you have suggested. Looking at the sample rate of the output file but all I can change is the bit depth of the converted file:
 

 
How can I set the frequency # to 88.2 kHz without the resampler?

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Did you try entering the preferences screen per my screenshot outside of the converter menu?

 

[Peti]

yup, PCM sample Rate 352800 & multistage double position had been set.

Did you try entering the preferences screen per my screenshot outside of the converter menu?

 

[Joe Bloggs]

You can set the PCM sample rate to 88200 instead if that's what you want to downsample to. Or keep that as it is and add a DSP resampler to whatever rate you want. As long as you aren't setting the SACD PCM sample rate to 44100 and resampling UP afterwards it's ok.

 

[jiiteepee]

  Unfortunately I can't clip the DSD file for a teaser. It's a big a** DSD 256 file, like 10 gigs big.
 

 
Have you checked if TASCAM's Hi-Res Editor (freeware) is fast enough editor for you to clip a 10s (DSD256) sampe from the original file ?