[FishHead]

Will you put a notice on this thread when you post the new Torpedo III build?

Is there any new estimates (release date, cost, etc) that you can throw in the cage here?

 

[tomb]

Will you put a notice on this thread when you post the new Torpedo III build?

Is there any new estimates (release date, cost, etc) that you can throw in the cage here?

 
PCB's are here and all parts except tubes.  I hope to get a line on those today.  Most likely, I'll go with new sets of JJ 12AU7's, mostly because they're cheap and new manufacture (better quality control).  The realm of 12AY7, 12AU7, and 12AX7 tone and esoterica is too large for me to compete as a tube dealer.  So, I'm not going to do anything but supply a basic pair with good quality control that works.  Either the JJ's or the EH's are probably the best way to do that.
 
I hope to make a build-by-photo this weekend and will post something when I do.

 

[OJNeg]

   
PCB's are here and all parts except tubes.  I hope to get a line on those today.  Most likely, I'll go with new sets of JJ 12AU7's, mostly because they're cheap and new manufacture (better quality control).  The realm of 12AY7, 12AU7, and 12AX7 tone and esoterica is too large for me to compete as a tube dealer.  So, I'm not going to do anything but supply a basic pair with good quality control that works.  Either the JJ's or the EH's are probably the best way to do that.
 
I hope to make a build-by-photo this weekend and will post something when I do.

I take it the Edcor OPTs are going to ship with the Torp3? Any status update on Cinemag OPTs?

 

[tomb]

 

   
PCB's are here and all parts except tubes.  I hope to get a line on those today.  Most likely, I'll go with new sets of JJ 12AU7's, mostly because they're cheap and new manufacture (better quality control).  The realm of 12AY7, 12AU7, and 12AX7 tone and esoterica is too large for me to compete as a tube dealer.  So, I'm not going to do anything but supply a basic pair with good quality control that works.  Either the JJ's or the EH's are probably the best way to do that.
 
I hope to make a build-by-photo this weekend and will post something when I do.

I take it the Edcor OPTs are going to ship with the Torp3? Any status update on Cinemag OPTs?

 
The Cinemags will be an option once they are available, but keep in mind that they won't be cheap.  You'll have to wait for Dsavitsk to post for an update on those.
 
I haven't heard the Cinemags yet, but the amp is already noticeably superior to the Torpedo I with the Edcors.  The difference is easy enough to notice in a couple of minutes or less.  For long-term listening - due to the nature of the DSHA portion of the circuit - it's much more superior than that.
 
So, given the cost of the Cinemags, we feel that's there plenty of opportunity to offer both options.  The Cinemags would be a perfect opportunity for someone just starting out with the Torpedo III to buy low, then upgrade high later on ... or something like that.  I could be wrong, though.  It could work out that everyone will want Cinemags and we'll just save the Edcors for Torpedo I, assuming it will still sell, too.  These are all tricky questions from a business perspective - predicting customer reaction, etc.  Just to remind everyone, the proprietary nature of the ECP Audio circuitry involved will mean that the Torpedo III will cost a lot more, anyway.  I hope it doesn't shock everyone.
 
Anyway, I have quite a bit of work to do before actually selling the kits - maybe a week or two, perhaps.  So, it's quite possible the Cinemags will arrive by that time.

 

[OJNeg]

   
The Cinemags will be an option once they are available, but keep in mind that they won't be cheap.  You'll have to wait for Dsavitsk to post for an update on those.
 
I haven't heard the Cinemags yet, but the amp is already noticeably superior to the Torpedo I with the Edcors.  The difference is easy enough to notice in a couple of minutes or less.  For long-term listening - due to the nature of the DSHA portion of the circuit - it's much more superior than that.
 
So, given the cost of the Cinemags, we feel that's there plenty of opportunity to offer both options.  The Cinemags would be a perfect opportunity for someone just starting out with the Torpedo III to buy low, then upgrade high later on ... or something like that.  I could be wrong, though.  It could work out that everyone will want Cinemags and we'll just save the Edcors for Torpedo I, assuming it will still sell, too.  These are all tricky questions from a business perspective - predicting customer reaction, etc.  Just to remind everyone, the proprietary nature of the ECP Audio circuitry involved will mean that the Torpedo III will cost a lot more, anyway.  I hope it doesn't shock everyone.
 
Anyway, I have quite a bit of work to do before actually selling the kits - maybe a week or two, perhaps.  So, it's quite possible the Cinemags will arrive by that time.

TBH I'm more interested in putting the Cinemags in the Torp1

 

[dsavitsk]

Any status update on Cinemag OPTs?

TBH I'm more interested in putting the Cinemags in the Torp1

What we hope will be the final prototypes of the nickel OPTs should be here within the week. If all goes well with them, we will offer the T3 with either the Edcors or the Cinemags at different price points. I will also offer the Cinemags for sale on their own. As far as we know, they should work fine in the T1, but neither of us have tested that yet.

 

[OJNeg]

Thanks Doug

 

[Blze001]

I was inspired to go back to what got me interested in tube sound to begin with this weekend. Set up an FM transmitter and fired up my dad's old 1960's Grundig radio. Clearly, the Torpedo and headphones reproduce music better across the board, but there's something about jazz coming out of a non-hybrid tube radio in a wooden cabinet that just sounds right.
 
So what kind of changes to the sound could I expect to hear if I changed from the provided parafeed caps to, say, the Clarity Caps that Tom used? Not looking for a "better or worse", more a "this part of the sonic signature generally changes if caps are swapped".

 

[OJNeg]

  I was inspired to go back to what got me interested in tube sound to begin with this weekend. Set up an FM transmitter and fired up my dad's old 1960's Grundig radio. Clearly, the Torpedo and headphones reproduce music better across the board, but there's something about jazz coming out of a non-hybrid tube radio in a wooden cabinet that just sounds right.
 
So what kind of changes to the sound could I expect to hear if I changed from the provided parafeed caps to, say, the Clarity Caps that Tom used? Not looking for a "better or worse", more a "this part of the sonic signature generally changes if caps are swapped".

What sort of shift are you looking for exactly?
 
With the Jantzen Silvers I have in my Torpedo things are just a lot more clear and energetic. I consider it a direct upgrade from the Solens (which aren't bad sounding, but can be improved IMO)

 

[dsavitsk]

What sort of shift are you looking for exactly?

I'll throw in that transformer changes are not like capacitor changes. With better caps, we think maybe we hear some subtle differences with better caps offering slightly better clarity, etc. There is some measurement evidence that different caps sound different, but it is fairly subjective and subtle. With transformers, the changes are large and easily measurable. The measurements below are from CH 15 f the Handbook for sound engineers https://books.google.com/books?id=t__vBgAAQBAJ&lpg=PA378&ots=vXxDOk2LAV&pg=PA367#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[Blze001]

  What sort of shift are you looking for exactly?
 
With the Jantzen Silvers I have in my Torpedo things are just a lot more clear and energetic. I consider it a direct upgrade from the Solens (which aren't bad sounding, but can be improved IMO)

 
Not really a case of me looking for a shift, more me curious about how amplifiers work and my love of tinkering.
 
So capacitors make small shifts depending on how big the gap in quality is, whereas output transformers will produce the kinds of instantly noticeable changes that changing tubes will? And the Cinemags will sound better than the Elcors because they have a higher nickel percentage and, therefore, less distortion?

 

[dsavitsk]

Capacitor changes make small differences. Sometimes these are worthwhile, but they are objectively small. Tube changes also make objectively small differences. Which is larger is hard to say -- depends on the particular parts. Transformer changes are larger than both because of the lower distortion due to different core material and because how different core material transforms different frequencies. The Cinemags will sound better because they have better material and because the winding technique is better. The Edcors offer extremely good sound for the money. The Cinemags offer extremely good sound.

 

[OJNeg]

I will agree with Doug. Capacitor rolling can give you a slightly different signature but with signal transformers the differences are more tangible. Once I'm able to put those Cinemags in my Torp1 I'll let you guys know in more certain terms

 

[tomb]

  I was inspired to go back to what got me interested in tube sound to begin with this weekend. Set up an FM transmitter and fired up my dad's old 1960's Grundig radio. Clearly, the Torpedo and headphones reproduce music better across the board, but there's something about jazz coming out of a non-hybrid tube radio in a wooden cabinet that just sounds right.
 
So what kind of changes to the sound could I expect to hear if I changed from the provided parafeed caps to, say, the Clarity Caps that Tom used? Not looking for a "better or worse", more a "this part of the sonic signature generally changes if caps are swapped".

 
This is not really a scientific finding or even one from elaborate experience, but I was never impressed with the Clarity caps.  I switched to the Solens for the kits because they either sounded the same or slightly better than the Clarity caps.  The fact that they were much cheaper was a tremendous bonus, but that was not the reason I started using them.  There are Solens in my own personal Torpedo I, not Clarity caps.
 
The Torpedo III will come with Epcos box caps.  It's not for any particular reason except that Dsavitsk suggested them and I have no complaints whatsoever.  I've since learned that they apparently have a pretty good "sleeper" reputation.

 

[dsavitsk]

 I've since learned that they apparently have a pretty good "sleeper" reputation.

I used them because they were cheap and fit the board Finding caps is a little tricky as this amp needs 4x 10u 300V caps. Very few audiophile caps will fit (each cap can be up to 21.5mm width/diameter and ~48mm in length if you want to go looking.) I think there is a Mundorf that will fit but I have not tried it. There is also the possibility of utilizing a small bypass (probably 1u or so as a starting point). Neither of us has tried this yet, but it is probably the best option for a cap upgrade. To make up for the lack of cap rolling, there are dozens of tubes that can be used