Drop x HiFiMAN HE-5XX
Nov 1, 2020 at 1:23 AM Post #211 of 586

displayname

Head-Fier
Joined
Jul 24, 2018
Posts
62
Likes
37
Location
Dallas, TX
Also, I think others will be interested in if many people think it's an improvement over the 4XX or not.
This is the point I'm most interested in being a 4xx owner. If the 5xx was out back when I had purchased, I likely would have just skipped straight to the 5xx. But is it really a notable step up from the 4xx? I guess we'll find out as more users get their hands on them.
 
Nov 1, 2020 at 1:32 AM Post #212 of 586

displayname

Head-Fier
Joined
Jul 24, 2018
Posts
62
Likes
37
Location
Dallas, TX
They don't dress up a 3 cylinder 1 litre family hatchback as a Mustang.
A better example is one I gave previously, the Chevy Blazer. The new Blazer has zero resemblance or capability of the Blazers of old. But they've been selling. Not because people are hung up on the name or marketing, but because they feel it's a quality value proposition.

Doesn't matter how they dress it up or what they name it. What matters it how it performs relative to its price. That's it.
 
Nov 1, 2020 at 1:39 AM Post #213 of 586

cel4145

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Posts
19,500
Likes
2,316
Location
grand rapids, mi
Hence why I said 'likely', not as a matter of fact :)

Visual indicators point to it being a Deva in a different paint coating. Measurements I haven't done a thorough side-by-side comparison yet, but some have claimed here that it is close to being to the Deva than being the HE-500. You can view the measurements and make what you will out of it:

https://drop.com/buy/drop-hifiman-he5xx#imagecarousel

Crinacle's Deva measurements: https://crinacle.com/graphs/headphones/hifiman-deva/

HE-500 from Tyll's measurements for reference despite not using the same GRAS measurement: https://overearmania.com/2019/01/20/hifiman-he500/

No. It's not "likely."

Unless you are calling Drop a liar. @trellus contacted Drop, and this is what they said, "The 5XX's magnetic field makeup is unique, the magnet array design is unique, the diaphragm tension and coatings are unique." Who knows? Maybe it's an evolution of the DEVA driver? Maybe the Hifiman design team that made the DEVA came up with something different?

"Visual indicators?" Anyone who understands planar magnetic driver design knows that visual inspection wouldn't tell you if it's the same driver.

Measurements are close? No one person has measured both of them with the same equipment. Moreover, HD58X and HD660S are close enough that you could jump to conclusions that it's the same driver. And we know it's not.

hd660s-vs-prod-hd58x1.png


https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/measurements/brands-s-se/hd58x-jubilee-massdrop/

So this is all wild speculation. And I think Drop deserves the benefit of the doubt that they are telling the truth. And not the condemnation of the Internet rumor mill when the headphone hasn't even been released yet.
 
Last edited:
Nov 1, 2020 at 1:21 AM Post #214 of 586

descloud

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jul 12, 2015
Posts
437
Likes
339
Location
North America
No. It's not "likely."
We can agree to disagree since most of us here are in speculation.

Unless you are calling Drop a liar.
Not once have I labeled Drop as liars from my previous posts. And just so you are clear, it's Hifiman that I have been pointing my negative comments to, not Drop in particular despite them being part of the collaboration, if you took the time to read the previous comments.

@trellus contacted Drop, and this is what they said, "The 5XX's magnetic field makeup is unique, the magnet array design is unique, the diaphragm tension and coatings are unique." Who knows? Maybe it's an evolution of the DEVA driver? Maybe the Hifiman design team that made the DEVA came up with something different?
Yes, that's what the Product Manager said. I can disagree with his statements on different levels from a physics stand point with his use of the term for magnetic field, diaphgram tension and coating, but instead I will label him as one who can stretch the use of the word "unique". You can paint an HE-500 red and call it also a "unique coating" for example.

As I said above, we are both in speculation here - you are free to choose which camp you're at and free to express your opinions and insults - just like the rest here.

And I think Drop deserves the benefit of the doubt that they are telling the truth. And not the condemnation of the Internet rumor mill when the headphone hasn't even been released yet.
Sure, you can give Drop that benefit, that's your prerogative. That doesn't make my speculations any more incorrect than yours until proven otherwise.

Until then, this is an open forum for speculations and somewhat open for critcisim :)
 
Nov 1, 2020 at 1:51 AM Post #215 of 586

cel4145

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Posts
19,500
Likes
2,316
Location
grand rapids, mi
Not once have I labeled Drop as liars from my previous posts.

You wrote
Now that we have cleared up based on observation that the HE-5XX is likely a re-tuned Deva and not a reproduced HE-500, I'd be curious to hear the difference people have between the Deva and this one - and of course for people who own the HE-500 and bought this one for comparison as well.

So are you saying they are NOT lying? In which case then it's not likely a re-tuned DEVA. Or are you saying they are lying? Or are you saying Hifiman misled Drop? Stand up for your opinion by explaining how you arrived at that conclusion.

I can disagree with his statements on different levels from a physics stand point with his use of the term for magnetic field, diaphgram tension and coating, but instead I will label him as one who can stretch the use of the word "unique".

You don't know enough to know that you can't visually inspect the drivers and know if they are the same, and you are asking for more than a layman's explanation???

That doesn't make my speculations any more incorrect than yours until proven otherwise.

I'm not speculating on anything. I'm in the "best to wait and see" camp instead of jumping to conclusions. And the rest of your assertion is not valid. Some speculation is necessarily better than others. Thus the term "wild speculation."
 
Nov 1, 2020 at 2:39 AM Post #216 of 586

descloud

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jul 12, 2015
Posts
437
Likes
339
Location
North America
So are you saying they are NOT lying? In which case then it's not likely a re-tuned DEVA. Or are you saying they are lying? Or are you saying Hifiman misled Drop?
You may want to take a look at a difference between "lying" and "exaggeration". It's not a "black and white" based on what you're implying or what you perceive.

Stand up for your opinion by explaining how you arrived at that conclusion.
Specs are identical with the Deva, along with the driver structure setup being very similar if you remove the pads from the HE-5XX and Deva. Frequency response measurements can be also argued as being similar depending on varying degrees of deviation from each other, especially the 2k - 10k region. Hence - the reasonable speculation that this appears to be a Deva re-tuned. Happy now? :)

You don't know enough to know that you can't visually inspect the drivers and know if they are the same
Given my reasoning above - so it's neither invalid nor incorrect to come to the inference that it's a re-tuned Deva. Take note of the bolded word if you're assuming what's being presented is conclusive - which you seem to be hang up.

and you are asking for more than a layman's explanation???
Since they're claiming it's "unique", why wouldn't you want a more technical differences between the two? Aren't you a wee bit interested in how it's unique? I certainly am, especially with how it's being emphasized as unique.

I'm not speculating on anything. I'm in the "best to wait and see" camp instead of jumping to conclusions. And the rest of your assertion is not valid. Some speculation is necessarily better than others. Thus the term "wild speculation."
We can agree to disagree on what you consider as "valid". You don't have conclusive evidence to prove otherwise from what I've said - so my "assertion" as you say, is still at best a conjecture. As mentioned above, the speculations are neither invalid nor wild given the reasonable evidence, until Hifiman (or Drop in this case) provides reasonable justification of what was claimed as being "unique" and not in any way using the same driver setup as the Deva.

And by far, no conclusions have been jumped to from this part of town :)
 
Last edited:
Nov 1, 2020 at 5:26 AM Post #217 of 586

bobbooo

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Apr 12, 2014
Posts
185
Likes
89
This is the point I'm most interested in being a 4xx owner. If the 5xx was out back when I had purchased, I likely would have just skipped straight to the 5xx. But is it really a notable step up from the 4xx? I guess we'll find out as more users get their hands on them.

No, the HE5XX is not a step up from the HE4XX. On the contrary in fact, as they have a significant lack of bass in comparison to the latter:

qwX5yqVoSwiJbxzLI8SI_2.jpg
 
Last edited:
Nov 1, 2020 at 6:13 AM Post #218 of 586

trellus

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Posts
3,094
Likes
2,110
Location
Plano, TX
No, the HE5XX is not a step up from the HE4XX. On the contrary in fact, as they have a significant lack of bass in comparison to the latter:

qwX5yqVoSwiJbxzLI8SI_2.jpg

I trust the ears of the person who reviewed them on Drop who has heard both and says the 5XX is definitely a step up from the 4XX — over purely FR graph reading, which will not tell you everything about sonic capabilities.
 
Nov 1, 2020 at 7:47 AM Post #220 of 586

KCXT

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
May 6, 2020
Posts
158
Likes
207
Location
66062
A better example is one I gave previously, the Chevy Blazer. The new Blazer has zero resemblance or capability of the Blazers of old. But they've been selling. Not because people are hung up on the name or marketing, but because they feel it's a quality value proposition.

Doesn't matter how they dress it up or what they name it. What matters it how it performs relative to its price. That's it.

I don't find this a good analogy simply because it's blatantly obvious that the new Blazer is not the same as the one one. On the outside of course but the average Joe can also just open the hood and clearly see a different engine, peek underneath and see a different chassis, sit inside and see an entirely different interior.

It's also pretty clear that the 5XX is at least aesthetically different from the 500, so I say this with respect to as much the potential Deva overlap as the HE-500. Even buyers of a Yukon can clearly and easily confirm that it's just a Tahoe with a few more bells and whistles.
 
Nov 1, 2020 at 8:45 AM Post #221 of 586

bagwell359

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Nov 10, 2016
Posts
2,913
Likes
2,034
Location
NNW of Boston
"Visual indicators?" Anyone who understands planar magnetic driver design knows that visual inspection wouldn't tell you if it's the same driver.

How did you come to that? We know the membrane of the 5XX is much thinner than the 500 - HFM said so. We can see that stator from the back side - immensely different, look from the inside pads off - same thing. 5XX is 18 ohms, 500 is 38, 5xx is what 8 db more efficient. cup shape different, material different, pads different, cable different. Maybe the back screens are the same (outside of the shape), So, sorry, but your statement doesn't pass the common sense test or an electro-mechanical standpoint.

So this is all wild speculation. And I think Drop deserves the benefit of the doubt that they are telling the truth. And not the condemnation of the Internet rumor mill when the headphone hasn't even been released yet.

Drop? It's a HFM design, what they say is questionable due to prior cases of bald lies having been told by HFM.

I see that the 5XX has measurably less bass under 70 Hz than the 4XX. The 4XX has a weak low bass, that's obscured by fat mid and upper bass, but any decent test recording proves that the 4XX is indeed shy of lower bass. The 500 is notably stronger in the low bass than the 4XX (I own both), so then it looks like the 5XX may have fast bass, and even tonally correct bass, but it does not have HE-500 bass.
 
Nov 1, 2020 at 8:47 AM Post #222 of 586

bagwell359

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Nov 10, 2016
Posts
2,913
Likes
2,034
Location
NNW of Boston
I have the Deva and love them. Was interested in this can as well, but the page after page of drivel in this thread has killed that interest. Disengaging from this thread and moving on now....peace.

You are going to let crosswinds of conversation you don't like keep you from your course?
 
Nov 1, 2020 at 9:04 AM Post #223 of 586

bagwell359

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Nov 10, 2016
Posts
2,913
Likes
2,034
Location
NNW of Boston
Doesn't matter how they dress it up or what they name it. What matters it how it performs relative to its price. That's it.

If HFM decided to name it the HE-DC1 or some such, that is EXACTLY what would be going on. They brought attention to themselves with the asserted connection to the HE-500, and commentary they have made along with that choice.

I'm sure some of the wait and see folks are tired of the objectors, but if you want our complaining to throttle down you ought to think about practicing what you preach - wait for more data.
 
Nov 1, 2020 at 9:15 AM Post #224 of 586

Roderick

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Posts
1,516
Likes
1,612
Location
Finland
No, the HE5XX is not a step up from the HE4XX. On the contrary in fact, as they have a significant lack of bass in comparison to the latter:

qwX5yqVoSwiJbxzLI8SI_2.jpg
Only thing that you can conclude from that is HE4XX has better (measurable) bass extension which might be irrelevant depending on how the sound is actually perceived. I mean going by frequency response alone lcd-2 bass is not that exceptional but when you listen to them it becomes obvious why Audeze's are known for their bass. And you definately can't make an assumption that 4XX is better overall just by that graph.
 
Nov 1, 2020 at 9:28 AM Post #225 of 586

bagwell359

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Nov 10, 2016
Posts
2,913
Likes
2,034
Location
NNW of Boston
Only thing that you can conclude from that is HE4XX has better (measurable) bass extension which might be irrelevant depending on how the sound is actually perceived. I mean going by frequency response alone lcd-2 bass is not that exceptional but when you listen to them it becomes obvious why Audeze's are known for their bass. And you definately can't make an assumption that 4XX is better overall just by that graph.

That's true. The HE-4XX is a can that I class as "very extroverted", there is lots of treble, mids, and mid/upper bass - too much so. The bass tends towards being thick and under damped. I have quite a bit of dynamat on the back to dampen it which helps, but, its still short of low bass,

The HE5se (mine) has a thin membrane, quick bass, but it lacks impact, certainly gets weak under 70 Hz, but its never sloppy. I'd wager the 5XX is closer to this sound with its thin membrane than the 4XX or 500.

And yes this post is conjecture, by an owner (past and present) of 9 HFM cans.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top