Dr. Xin Is Back!

Jul 16, 2008 at 8:44 AM Post #76 of 132
Quote:

Originally Posted by nc8000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I needed to contact him since it is so long since I ordered that I couldn't remember what I ordered and my credit card has expired since then so he needed the new number.


That certainly say something about the waiting time.
You have waited so long that you don't remember what you ordered..
tongue.gif
 
Jul 16, 2008 at 10:07 AM Post #77 of 132
Just reading this and other threads on here dealing with similar things (insane wait times, lack of communication, constant "Shipping soon!" emails without real action) would be enough to cause one to be a bit leery about buying things from many headphone-related companies now. It really shouldn't take involved research just to see if the company you sent money to, or placed an order with, can even be expected to give you a real timeframe in which the product can be expected, much less actually be in contact or build the products they have for sale.

I've seen a lot of custom and semi-custom/low-yield runs on various things over the years, but I have NEVER seen customers make up the amount of excuses to cover the manufacturers' collective asses as I have on here. Regardless of whether something is the absolute best in its class, taking money/orders and being "out of contact" for over a year in many cases - and sometimes even longer! - is absolutely inane.

I guess there doesn't need to be any personal responsibility on the part of these manufacturers because the people who buy their "products" will make excuses to cover for whatever problems that come up. True, it's not a huge thing in life, but I'm sure plenty of people have ordered products from these companies thinking they'd have the product they ordered in a reasonable time frame, and the inevitable "It'll ship tomorrow!" response, or utter lack of response, has caused quite a few of those people to keep postponing refund requests or to hang onto the hope that they might actually get what they bought.

I don't - and never will - have any money invested in any company that can't be bothered to answer emails, even in a delayed fashion due to overwhelming production requirements. An hour a day isn't that long, and would go a very, very long way towards answering emails and voicemails from clients, instead of simply leaving everyone in the dark. Threads like this should be required reading for noobs like me who, without long-term immersion in the hobby, don't know who can even be trusted to build what's ordered. I'm sure that, had I ordered a Xin amp or some of the others prior to reading any of the threads about them, I could have eventually gotten a refund, but the point is, one shouldn't have to do that. I could have spent the month or two months or year I'd have spent waiting on either an amp or a refund listening to another amp, instead of sitting around, waiting and hoping that what I ordered came in before I got senile.

The worst thing is, there seems to be no personal responsibility with the manufacturers to stop taking orders until they get caught up - which just causes things to keep piling up and to get worse and worse. I'm sure there are people willing to wait two years with no contact from the builder for an amp....but for every one of those people, there are probably ten who, like me, balance purchases as much on lead and wait time as they do on price and quality, and no one should be forced to read threads on forums to see whether a manufacturer is blatantly lying about wait times and shipping or not.
 
Jul 16, 2008 at 10:47 AM Post #78 of 132
Please take a look a the post #57
You must be really bored to write such a lengthy post with so few (none in fact) value-added comments.
 
Jul 16, 2008 at 2:32 PM Post #79 of 132
Respectfully, ease off and let him freely air his opinions as that is the purpose of HeadFi. If you were the moderator that would be a different matter, but until then all perspectives should be welcomed even if not agreed with.
 
Jul 16, 2008 at 3:56 PM Post #80 of 132
Quote:

Originally Posted by itsborken /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Respectfully, ease off and let him freely air his opinions as that is the purpose of HeadFi. If you were the moderator that would be a different matter, but until then all perspectives should be welcomed even if not agreed with.



ditto, especially when the guy has a point!
 
Jul 16, 2008 at 4:21 PM Post #81 of 132
Quote:

Originally Posted by DemonicLemming /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Just reading this and other threads on here dealing with similar things (insane wait times, lack of communication, constant "Shipping soon!" emails without real action) would be enough to cause one to be a bit leery about buying things from many headphone-related companies now. It really shouldn't take involved research just to see if the company you sent money to, or placed an order with, can even be expected to give you a real timeframe in which the product can be expected, much less actually be in contact or build the products they have for sale.

I've seen a lot of custom and semi-custom/low-yield runs on various things over the years, but I have NEVER seen customers make up the amount of excuses to cover the manufacturers' collective asses as I have on here. Regardless of whether something is the absolute best in its class, taking money/orders and being "out of contact" for over a year in many cases - and sometimes even longer! - is absolutely inane.

I guess there doesn't need to be any personal responsibility on the part of these manufacturers because the people who buy their "products" will make excuses to cover for whatever problems that come up. True, it's not a huge thing in life, but I'm sure plenty of people have ordered products from these companies thinking they'd have the product they ordered in a reasonable time frame, and the inevitable "It'll ship tomorrow!" response, or utter lack of response, has caused quite a few of those people to keep postponing refund requests or to hang onto the hope that they might actually get what they bought.

I don't - and never will - have any money invested in any company that can't be bothered to answer emails, even in a delayed fashion due to overwhelming production requirements. An hour a day isn't that long, and would go a very, very long way towards answering emails and voicemails from clients, instead of simply leaving everyone in the dark. Threads like this should be required reading for noobs like me who, without long-term immersion in the hobby, don't know who can even be trusted to build what's ordered. I'm sure that, had I ordered a Xin amp or some of the others prior to reading any of the threads about them, I could have eventually gotten a refund, but the point is, one shouldn't have to do that. I could have spent the month or two months or year I'd have spent waiting on either an amp or a refund listening to another amp, instead of sitting around, waiting and hoping that what I ordered came in before I got senile.

The worst thing is, there seems to be no personal responsibility with the manufacturers to stop taking orders until they get caught up - which just causes things to keep piling up and to get worse and worse. I'm sure there are people willing to wait two years with no contact from the builder for an amp....but for every one of those people, there are probably ten who, like me, balance purchases as much on lead and wait time as they do on price and quality, and no one should be forced to read threads on forums to see whether a manufacturer is blatantly lying about wait times and shipping or not.



Agreed, this place doesn't scrutinize people for posting something that someone else has already mentioned. Otherwise, all the amp/headphone vs amp/headphone threads would be flame threads, which in reality they're not. Besides, the poster does have a good point, and I agree that good communication is key to good customer satisfaction. If anything, it's just as important (if not more so at certain times) than a good product.
 
Jul 16, 2008 at 5:45 PM Post #83 of 132
Quote:

Originally Posted by JarodL1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Still no confirms of amps shipped, another lie from Xin.


Well, he *could* be working on a batch of amps and plans to ship them all together. Not exactly what he needs to do IMO, as getting *something* to the public to show he's walking the talk is what's needed, not a big batch release 1.5 months from now. If he ships one every other day as he starts to ramp up, at least it's proof he's understanding the angst and wants to eliminate it. I understand building batches is more efficient but he needs to clear his name more than be ultra-efficient. Once he's clearly in a build mode then he slowly switches to larger batches to be efficient.

I'd give him a few weeks since his reappearance to get something into a enduser's hands. Lies is a pretty strong word implying intentional deception vs. just being a screw-up. Having to re-poll customers tells me he doesn't maintain an order list and makes me think its more of the latter than the former.
 
Jul 16, 2008 at 5:47 PM Post #84 of 132
Quote:

Originally Posted by ljs /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Please take a look a the post #57
You must be really bored to write such a lengthy post with so few (none in fact) value-added comments.



I'm not too sure what a "value-added comment" is, but my post was simply an open-ended statement about how things seem to be going in the market, coming from the viewpoint of a new guy who might very well have made a very expensive mistake without knowing it until it was too late.

I'm not trying to bash any of the manufacturers, say they make bad products, etc etc. There simply needs to be more personal responsibility among those companies as far as not taking orders when they have a large backlog, better customer support, and no "blackouts" when they simply disappear without any warning or reason, for months at a time.

If you walked into a store, saw a product, and said, "I would like to buy that." and either paid for it at that time, or gave them your credit card information to be billed later, then left the store, would it be acceptable for the store to not send your product within a reasonable timeframe without any warning ahead of time (like at purchase) that it would likely be a very long wait, to completely ignore all attempts to contact them, and to occasionally notify you that your product was either ready to ship or was being shipped, with absolutely no intention whatsoever to actually adhere to what they said? Furthermore, do you think that you should have to do in-depth research on a company just to see if they actually ship things when they say they will? That's sort of an expected thing - if I tell a client I'll be mailing something to them on a certain day, or give them a specific timeframe as to when they'll receive their product, I either ship it when I tell them I would, or I contact them as soon as possible to let them know something's come up and that their order will be delayed.

I'm simply confused as to why such practices are acceptable in this niche market, and even more confused as to why people who spend thousands of dollars on equipment feel the need to make excuses for the manufacturers they bought the equipment from when the aforementioned problems arise. I've seen extremely scathing posts by members on here while waiting for their stuff, then as soon as they get it, they do a complete and utter reversal of position and even go so far as to say they'd continue to do business with the manufacturer! When people like that defend the manufacturer, it makes it impossible for everyone else who is NOT happy with the service to really be able to do anything - because the manufacturers know as long as there are customers out there blindly defending them, that they'll be able to continue their business practices.

It just seems that too many members on here either don't want to say anything about specific companies - which, in a twisted sense, I can understand, if they have outstanding orders with those companies and publicly criticizing them might (note, I'm not saying it DOES happen, merely a hypothetical) cause yet more delays with their order - or that those who do are buried under the avalanche of, "He makes good products when he does eventually deliver them, just ignore all the bad aspects, like no communication, blackouts, false shipping dates and shipping confirmation. None of that is important!" posts. It just makes it even worse when a manufacturer pops back up out of nowhere, promises to take care of everything, then disappears yet again, making people who had given up on getting their stuff start to wonder, "Well, wait, is he really back? Does that mean I'm going to get my amp now? What's happening?" for another month, until they realize it's just a repetition of what happened before.
 
Jul 16, 2008 at 6:41 PM Post #85 of 132
itsborken,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xin /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Shipping starts tomorrow.


Xin posted that on his site on 7/8. It is now more then a week later and I still haven't seen an amp ship. So yes, I would call that a lie.
 
Jul 16, 2008 at 6:49 PM Post #86 of 132
Quote:

Originally Posted by itsborken /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I'd give him a few weeks since his reappearance to get something into a enduser's hands. Lies is a pretty strong word implying intentional deception vs. just being a screw-up. Having to re-poll customers tells me he doesn't maintain an order list and makes me think its more of the latter than the former.


You are such an optimist. If I believed every piece of junk mail that lands in my inbox I would be the same.
 
Jul 16, 2008 at 7:27 PM Post #87 of 132
Quote:

Originally Posted by JarodL1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
itsborken,



Xin posted that on his site on 7/8. It is now more then a week later and I still haven't seen an amp ship. So yes, I would call that a lie.




Well, give him a few days to build the amp and a few days for UPS/USPS/whatever logistics for it to land on a doorstop.

So, if he worked an order for the Western US, I'd say amps should be arriving on someone's doorstop in the next day or two. Eastern US, I'd give another week, overseas a week after that. But, if he's batching who knows when that batch will get to the logistics company he uses.

BTW, I'm no Xin booster, just trying to take a measured approach. If he doesn't start delivering soon, yeah, I'll be calling shenanigans too, count on it. I've pretty much been doing it since last Thanksgiving when I cancelled my order.
 
Jul 16, 2008 at 7:34 PM Post #88 of 132
Quote:

Originally Posted by StanleyB1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
You are such an optimist. If I believed every piece of junk mail that lands in my inbox I would be the same.


Hardly to either count.

Don't you believe someone can change their attitude if they put their mind to it? If not, so he gets another few week's rope to hang himself--he's not going to do any more damage as long as new orders aren't flowing in. I think he just played his last 'get out of jail free' card with people around here. Let's see how it turns out.
 
Jul 16, 2008 at 9:30 PM Post #89 of 132
It's suprising how some members are so flippant with their money. "Just pay by card and he'll charge it whenever he decides to dispatch..." "Who cares? You haven't put any money down, just be patient." "He's just real busy making the amps better." "It'll be a surprise!"

Not knowing when or if my Credit/Debit card will be charged with hundreds of dollars is a very strange situation to be in, one I've never been in and not likely to ever be in.


Also, did everyone forget that he previously said all amps would be shipped by Thanksgiving of last year (2007)?



rolleyes.gif

EK
 
Jul 16, 2008 at 10:12 PM Post #90 of 132
well that feeling would depend on your budget. i have yet to encounter another scenario where i would be dying to have my credit card be charged... i remember when i received my first xin amp couple years ago, seeing that $250 charged to my card was like a God-send gift! (granted, it was charged before i received the amp, so it generated an excitement for me...)
 

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