Does the Apple Universal Dock have a true Line Out?

[taz]

I've had my (new) iPod Classic 120GB plugged into my LD MKIII headphone amp directly (via headphone socket) and via an Apple Univeral Dock (the Line Out jack). It's very, very quiet and the sound doesn't really have much weight to it. I need to the turn the volume control to the 3.00pm position to get an acceptable level of volume.

Today I did an experiment and connected a DAB radio with a Line Out to the LD MKIII. The sound was loud and powerful. Whilst it wasn't high quality considering the severe audio limitations of DAB radio, the volume was there.

I've had to turn the volume control down to the 8.00pm position to get the same level of volume as I did from the iPod through the Universal Dock.

So, three things suggest that the iPod Classic doesn't have a Line Out:

1. Line Out from Apple Dock is very quiet (I can control the volume from the iPod and set it to full volume and it's still quiet)

2. The sound from the headphone jack of the iPod is exactly the same as the sound from the Line Out jack of the Apple Dock as far as I can tell

3. Any other source with a Line Out sounds much louder

So, does anyone know if the Apple Universal Dock has a true Line Out?

 

[Calexico]

Um if it's lineout, I don't think it's possible to adjust the volume from the iPod in the first place. If you can, then it's not lineout.

 

[tstarn06]

The universal dock apparently is not true line out, but a real LOD cable (from Head-Fi DIYers and ALO, for example) are, because when using mine with my Touch 2G, the volume control is rendered useless, as are the EQ settings.

 

[mrarroyo]

Taz, I had the same problem w/ the Apple unit and returned it. Trying to decide between a Wadia i170 plus DAC or just an el-cheapo lineout to rca.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

The gist of this thread is that one buys an Apple Universal Dock for convenience, not performance. After all, the Universal Dock comes with a remote which controls many functions of an iPod docked to the Universal Dock - including volume. Unfortunately, I've discovered that the newest (current-model) iPods don't have a true line out at all (I discovered this when I used a "real" LOD cable which I borrowed from a friend): The "line-out" sounded exactly the same as the headphone out even through a "true" LOD cable. This fact allows the very recent iPods to be remote volume-control capable with the same remote which is included with the Universal Dock. Older-model iPods with a Dock Connector are remote-playback-and-selection capable with the Universal Dock, but the remote volume control does not work with those older iPods.

 

[MilkyWay]

The universal dock actually has it's own dac chip and op amp, I used it with my iMod and I knew there was something wrong straight away

 

[shigzeo]

my dock has less hiss than my ipod touch. it is not contollable volume with the ipod touch. the output can be controlled and still be a line out: it does not mean that it is in the way of an amp but that the circuitry is attenuated externally.

no portable has a true line out like a hifi would: not even alo. all the information comes from the same exact place rather than a dedicated chip. in that case, the line out in the universal dock being fed from a separate chip is probably closer to a real lineout than anything else.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif my dock has less hiss than my ipod touch. it is not contollable volume with the ipod touch. the output can be controlled and still be a line out: it does not mean that it is in the way of an amp but that the circuitry is attenuated externally. no portable has a true line out like a hifi would: not even alo. all the information comes from the same exact place rather than a dedicated chip. in that case, the line out in the universal dock being fed from a separate chip is probably closer to a real lineout than anything else.

If you do read the post above, the universal Dock appears to have its own op-amp circuitry.

EDIT: I did a test, using a set of M-Audio Studiophile AV-30 powered speakers, between the headphone out of my Nano 4G and the Nano 4G's "line out" connected to the Universal Dock. I've now discovered that the Nano 4G actually has a second volume control that's compatible with the Universal Dock (and maybe several other third-party iPod speaker docks). This volume control communicates with the op-amp in the Universal Dock (and that op-amp is very similar, if not identical, in performance to the one that's built into the headphone out circuitry of one of the better-sounding iPods), allowing the Nano 4G's volume control to be remotely controlled using the Universal Dock's remote (many older iPods lack this second volume control, and thus cannot be remotely volume-controlled). But I have not actually tested a "real" LOD on my Nano 4G yet. So the Nano 4G might or might not have a true line-out.

 

[mortonjl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calexico /img/forum/go_quote.gif Um if it's lineout, I don't think it's possible to adjust the volume from the iPod in the first place. If you can, then it's not lineout.

correct

 

[ph0rk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mortonjl /img/forum/go_quote.gif correct

If the volume control only reduces voltage and the output is line level at maximum volume, then incorrect. It is capable of line level output, and has a volume reducer for convenience - I've had several home CD players capable of something similar.

Whether or not the audio comes from the ipod/iphone's internal DAC or the DAC in the univeral dock is orthogonal to whether or not the dock is capable of line level output.

 

[hypoicon]

I have a sendstation dock, a universal dock, and the Wadia 170i transport. There is absolutely no contest when using an external dac (a PS Audio Digital Link III in my case) -- the Wadia is absolutely stunning.

But, at $1200 for the combo vs. 25$ for the sendstation dock you would hope that this would be the case. The universal dock was a real letdown. The sendstation dock fits my needs/expectations much better.

 

[krmathis]

No, it don't. Sadly!
Its a headphone out, going through the iPod's internal amplifier and volume control.

 

[nc8000]

I use an iPhone 3G and in my bedroom rig i have the Apple iPhone dock and that one seems to give a proper line-out signal independent of the iPhone eq and volume controls.

 

[taz]

That really sucks. I bought the Apple Universal Dock because it was specified as having a Line Out jack. Line Out to me is a standard 1V p-p analogue signal as per standard audio equipment, not a headphone out which is what appears to be present on the Line Out jack of the Dock.

 

[krmathis]

^ Yeah it sucks!
Its maybe related to the fact that the Universal Dock have video out and a remove control, and hence allowing you to control as much a possible with the remote.