Does it even exist?
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XenatR

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Need:
To find a balanced, monitoring headphone for gaming (csgo, bf3) and classical music (with some Pantera [groove metal] thrown in!). Imaging is key, especially depth, front to back. Also need a dac/amp (I have Creative BlasterX G6 but want to upgrade - perhaps Feliks tubes?). I want a sound I can listen to for hours without fatigue, sibilance or too much bass.

Experienced:
AKG K702 (big sound stage, poor imaging. gaming nono)
AKG K712 (big sound stage, poor imaging. gaming nono)
Beyer DT 880 (not comfortale, somewhat fatiguing treble after a while, balanced bass, decent sound stage, decent imaging left to right, not so much front to back [critical] the best I've heard for gaming so far)
Beyer DT 900 (not comfortable, decent sound stage, decent imaging, too much bass, too much treble, not great for gaming)
Beyer MMX300 (not comfortable, bass heavy, tiresome treble, decent imaging for closed back)
Audio Technica AD900X (lacking bass detail, good soundstage, average imaging)
Shure 1840 (balanced sound, average soundstage, not great imaging)

Ideal sound signature:
Reference, monitoring, flat.

Eye on:
HD600/650. Has anyone tried these?

Does a headphone with the characteristics I am looking for exist?
 
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ADUHF

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We are all lookin for pretty much the same thing my friend. So welcome to the club! And sorry for your wallet ( <standard Head-Fi advisory). :)

You've tried some pretty nice cans btw. Are you open to the idea of using an EQ? Also, which of the above was the closest to your ideal sound?
 
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SilverEars

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Need:
To find a balanced, monitoring headphone for gaming (csgo, bf3) and classical music (with some Pantera [groove metal] thrown in!). Imaging is key, especially depth, front to back. Also need a dac/amp (I have Creative BlasterX G6 but want to upgrade - perhaps Feliks tubes?). I want a sound I can listen to for hours without fatigue, sibilance or too much bass.

Experienced:
AKG K702 (big sound stage, poor imaging. gaming nono)
AKG K712 (big sound stage, poor imaging. gaming nono)
Beyer DT 880 (not comfortale, somewhat fatiguing treble after a while, balanced bass, decent sound stage, decent imaging left to right, not so much front to back [critical] the best I've heard for gaming so far)
Beyer DT 900 (not comfortable, decent sound stage, decent imaging, too much bass, too much treble, not great for gaming)
Beyer MMX300 (not comfortable, bass heavy, tiresome treble, decent imaging for closed back)
Audio Technica AD900X (lacking bass detail, good soundstage, average imaging)
Shure 1840 (balanced sound, average soundstage, not great imaging)

Ideal sound signature:
Reference, monitoring, flat.

Eye on:
HD600/650. Has anyone tried these?

Does a headphone with the characteristics I am looking for exist?
Can you define what your idea of 'imaging' is, and what constitutes good imaging? Any headphone not on that list you found to have good imaging?

I have no idea about headphone and gaming as I don't game that much, let alone with headphones.

Check this thread out. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mad...eze-lcd-1-mobius-fixed-missing-images.534479/
 
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SamHeng

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XenatR

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Can you define what your idea of 'imaging' is, and what constitutes good imaging? Any headphone not on that list you found to have good imaging?

I have no idea about headphone and gaming as I don't game that much, let alone with headphones.

Check this thread out. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mad...eze-lcd-1-mobius-fixed-missing-images.534479/
Hi!
Imaging being, with reference to gaming, the ability to pinpoint an enemies location on a certain 3d field. This is different to soundstage, which, in the case of the AKG, is large, but it is difficult to 'imagine' an enemy location. Soundstage and Imaging are mutually exclusive imo
 
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SteelCookie

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I have the HD600s, don't really use them much for gaming. They are acceptable for gaming but I wouldn't use them strictly for gaming. The HD600s are pretty intimate with a narrow sound-stage. Mid-bass (bass guitar) is there but definitely brought behind the singer. The mids are very sweet and soothing, when you think they'll be sibilant, they hold back, they never cross that line to sibilant. Treble is nice with plenty of air with cymbals sounding full. Sub-bass is definitely a weak point with it being very noticeably rolled off.
 
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katulu

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I used my HD800 for COD for a little while. I found the rolled-off subbass helpful since explosions came through less loudly. I do tend to need more treble in my hearing, so these might be fatiguing for you whereas for me they were fine.
 
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SilverEars

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Hi!
Imaging being, with reference to gaming, the ability to pinpoint an enemies location on a certain 3d field. This is different to soundstage, which, in the case of the AKG, is large, but it is difficult to 'imagine' an enemy location. Soundstage and Imaging are mutually exclusive imo
Wouldn't you want something that mimics speaker imaging? I know Mobius has a setting that utilizes accelerameters to mimic speaks infront of you. Headphones in general weren't meade to image like speakers, so when people say certain headphones are better for gaming I don't understand how, especially audiophile headphones.

With Mobious, you can do 7.1 surround, so that should help with locating.

To me it makes sense for gaming headphones have sound processing or DSP to create a sound environment for easy location pinpoint. There's probably stuff like that out there. I just don't think audiophile headphones are it. Or there's probably computer sound card software or hardware processing solutions out there that one can use any headphones with. An audiophile setup is 2 channel, and not purposed for gaming.
 
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creeper62

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I used to own a pair of HD6xx and they are great for gaming even if you just plug them straight into your PC. However, Mobius beats Hifi headphones almost in every aspect when it comes to gaming, especially for FPS.
 
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SilverEars

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I don't understand how it would sound speaker-like without any processing. I need to look to see what they are doing. It looks like Velour pads they slapped on. I wonder if that's bringing down the Beyer treble? DMS measurement rig seems unreliable, and not entirely sure how bad that upper-mid recession is. I don't understand why he associates 600 ohm and resolving.

I don't understand why I care about this. I'm not a gamer.
 
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kman1211

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I don't understand how it would sound speaker-like without any processing. I need to look to see what they are doing. It looks like Velour pads they slapped on. I wonder if that's bringing down the Beyer treble? DMS measurement rig seems unreliable, and not entirely sure how bad that upper-mid recession is. I don't understand why he associates 600 ohm and resolving.

I don't understand why I care about this. I'm not a gamer.
600 Ohm DT Beyers have lower mass voice coils so there is less moving mass. It’s just a general thing when comparing different impedance of Beyers and only really applies to Beyers. They generally have slightly better transient response and are a bit more resolving, but it’s on the subtle side, if the headphone really is that much darker than the DT 880 I would take it over the DT 880 any day, the DT 880 is too lean and bright for my liking. The pads and foam covering are different which may be why it’s darker, possibly pad changes too which Beyer seems to be tinkering with lately. All the Beyers with that front dampening on the Tygr seem to be darker based on measurements, the Amiron Wireless and DT 177X Go also have that new dampening foam. I haven’t heard any of them to confirm it, but would like to try and so I can swap the front dampening foam around to see what it does. Newer Beyers are trending towards a darker and warmer sound, I think on say the T1.2 Black they changed the pads as it’s notably warmer than other T1.2’s I heard in the past and I got very different impressions with pad swapping, almost any sort of velour will make it brighter and leaner than the stock velour pads, this wasn’t the case with my old T1.2 in which swapping pads to other velour often warmed up the sound or it stayed about as bright and lean.

Beyer had a shift in leadership a few years ago from what I gather so I think some of these new changes towards darker headphones may represent a company shift. I also know on Sennheiser Axel Grell left after the HD 660 S and HD 820 and Sennheiser may possibly change philosophy some as well. Will be curious to see how future products will turn out on both.
 
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SilverEars

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600 Ohm DT Beyers have lower mass voice coils so there is less moving mass. It’s just a general thing when comparing different impedance of Beyers and only really applies to Beyers. They generally have slightly better transient response and are a bit more resolving, but it’s on the subtle side, if the headphone really is that much darker than the DT 880 I would take it over the DT 880 any day, the DT 880 is too lean and bright for my liking. The pads and foam covering are different which may be why it’s darker, possibly pad changes too which Beyer seems to be tinkering with lately. All the Beyers with that front dampening on the Tygr seem to be darker based on measurements, the Amiron Wireless and DT 177X Go also have that new dampening foam. I haven’t heard any of them to confirm it, but would like to try and so I can swap the front dampening foam around to see what it does. Newer Beyers are trending towards a darker and warmer sound, I think on say the T1.2 Black they changed the pads as it’s notably warmer than other T1.2’s I heard in the past and I got very different impressions with pad swapping, almost any sort of velour will make it brighter and leaner than the stock velour pads, this wasn’t the case with my old T1.2 in which swapping pads to other velour often warmed up the sound or it stayed about as bright and lean.
Yeah, my experience is velour brings out upper frequencies, particularly the treble. It keeps upper-mids from recession which is obvious with Sennheisers.

What do you use to do the front dampening?
 
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kman1211

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Yeah, my experience is velour brings out upper frequencies, particularly the treble. It keeps upper-mids from recession which is obvious with Sennheisers.

What do you use to do the front dampening?
It doesn’t really tone down the treble much though, so sometimes I added some extra front damping but it often overdamped the sound, I don’t have any Beyers I feel need that anymore though. If this new Beyer foam tones down the treble without over damping the sound on that’s a very good thing in my eyes. I find the HD 600/650, etc. on the other hand the foam actually does tame the treble a decent amount without overdamping the sound and is an important part of their tuning and timbre. I don’t like tinkering with the Senns as I find they start sounding more like a DT Beyer (Teslas have a different sound character) when I started messing around with the foam, damping, pads, etc. and defeats the purpose of me owning a HD 600/650 to begin with.

In regards to what the OP wants, something like the HD 660 S or DT 1990 would be my suggestions.
 
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