[Konig]

Ive read up on the pros of balancing. But really, can anyone hear the difference?
I have asked alot of ppl on the forums if balancing the hd 650 or gs1000 will offer a significant difference, but I havent encountered one that bother to go balanced because they say it sounds great single ended already. Therefore, is there really a need to go balanced?

 

[robm321]

I haven't heard much in headphones going balanced, but with speakers systems, I've noticed small improvements with some fully balanced systems, and some equipment that sounded better using the single ended connections.

It's expensive unless you happen to have all balanced calbes, source, and amp/preamp. The benefit is not worth it to me to swap out my whole system. You also limit your options on sources and amps if you can only use balanced ones.

But that's my experience. Some love it and say it transforms and neutralizes the 650, etc. Who am I to say it doesn't. You pays your moneys you takes your chances.

 

[Konig]

There really are not many people that has gone balanced with their headphones.
I really hope that people that have balanced their headphones come out and speak abit.

 

[joojoo2915]

Balanced will make the music louder at the same volume setting as unbalanced.

 

[Konig]

So people go balanced when their amps dont have volume control knobs?

 

[goldenslug]

I believe that balancing increases the Voltage swing, but what is most important is having virtually no crosstalk due to having seperate grounds.

Also if you took a course on transmission lines, you'll see that with a balanced line you won't have any reflections (or noise) due to impedance mismatching. A problem with unbalanced cables is that it is more suspectible to noise like a ground loop. But you can google that for more info.

 

[Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldenslug Also if you took a course on transmission lines, you'll see that with a balanced line you won't have any reflections (or noise) due to impedance mismatching.

That's more the result of the output transformer than the pull-pull circuit itself though, right? And a single ended circuit with an OT will be the same.

 

[goldenslug]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl That's more the result of the output transformer than the pull-pull circuit itself though, right? And a single ended circuit with an OT will be the same.

I was just referring to a transmission line without a transformer, which is any cable like the headphone cable. Transmission lines can be analyzed without transformers. For max power transfer it is best to use a transformer.
With an unbalanced coaxial cable, the wire connecting to the load (headphones) has a different impedance from the foil (ground) connecting back to the source. Btw most headphone cables aren't balanced since the ground is just a foil wrapped around the wire and coaxial cables are known to be unbalanced connections.

A coaxial cable is known to be unbalanced and I think that for this reason it is not used to transmit power, because of losses. Also it is more expensive to build coaxial cable. I'm not entirely sure if all of this is true, but hopefully someone more knowledgeable can confirm this.

 

[Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldenslug I was just referring to a transmission line without a transformer, which is any cable like the headphone cable. Transmission lines can be analyzed without transformers. For max power transfer it is best to use a transformer. With an unbalanced coaxial cable, the wire connecting to the load (headphones) has a different impedance from the foil (ground) connecting back to the source. Btw most headphone cables aren't balanced since the ground is just a foil wrapped around the wire and coaxial cables are known to be unbalanced connections.

Well this is true, but remember that you are comparing a couple of metres of cable for a headphone compared to what is usually several kilometres (or several hundred km in some cases) for power transmission. Same rules, but very different scales, and different requirements.

Incidentally, foil is getting used less and less in audio frequency cables these days as braids tend to work better at rejecting audio frequency signals (as foil and braids have different impedance). Power cables probably still favour foil, though.

Quote:

A coaxial cable is known to be unbalanced and I think that for this reason it is not used to transmit power, because of losses. Also it is more expensive to build coaxial cable. I'm not entirely sure if all of this is true, but hopefully someone more knowledgeable can confirm this

There are two types of loss; inductance and capacitance. Coax has low inductance, but pretty average capacitance making it unsuited for really long runs. However, inductance is the biggest problem for a typical electrodynamic speaker system so that isn't a problem. Twisted pair has lower capacitance and more inductance than coax making it better suited for long runs.


Please feel free to point out any errors I've made, everyone.

 

[sgrossklass]

It has been argued that the benefits of balanced operation may be rooted in power buffering, always an important aspect in audio - when driving balanced loads, supply currents tend to cancel out as viewed by the power supply, pretty much eliminating large jumps in drawn current caused by signal dynamics. Balanced operation is quite useful for getting rid of interference, too.

 

[thrice]

I've heard the HD650 balanced and can honestly say I would prefer it that way. I do have a balanced rig and I run my W100 and K1000 out of it. For the K1000 balanced makes sense regarding headphone amps since you get more power and it needs it. The W100 sound better balanced as well.

People have chimed in regarding the effect balancing has on different headphones, some respond well, others the effect isn't as pronounced. I know the RS-1 balanced is a different beast altogether. The K701 I had didn't respond as much to balancing (i.e. not as much difference between it balanced vs. single-ended as other headphones).

It can be expensive to go balanced, but there are some fine player out there...Wadia comes to mind Meridian as well....I'm sure there are others. The Creek CD 53 is a great little CDP that has balanced outputs....it's discontinued but pops up on Audiogon every now and then.

I seem to remember this thread being informative:

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showt...lanced+benefit

 

[DigiPete]

With double the voltage swing to the headphone, and two amps driving each transducer, you are able to drive the transducer with more authority, and so have the possibility to get better fidelity output especially on difficult passages.

 

[robzy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joojoo2915 Balanced will make the music louder at the same volume setting as unbalanced.

Ceh??

My technical knowledge of balanced setups is far from perfect but my understanding is that all you are doing with respect to volume is increasing the voltage swing the amplifier can do if it needs to. (As well as twice as fast)

Rob.

 

[joojoo2915]

Quote:

Ceh?? My technical knowledge of balanced setups is far from perfect but my understanding is that all you are doing with respect to volume is increasing the voltage swing the amplifier can do if it needs to. (As well as twice as fast) Rob.

Okay, I am probably going to get this horribly wrong, but I'll give it a shot.

In a single ended system, the voltage difference is taken from a reference ground, so you get essentially one half of a sine wave. When you use a balanced setup the voltage your headphones see is taken by subtracting the negative signal from the positive signal, which has two effects, cancelling out noise and doubling the voltage. So, instead of having a possible 5 volts in a single ended system, you get 5-(-5) = 10 volts possible swing before clipping.

 

[DevilDog]

I've heard the HD-650 balanced and I'll say IMO that it was much better in a lot of ways. I can see how many would prefer it to being unbalanced. It was tighter and more controlled, I guess that's the pull/pull thing working.
Anyway, I heard it on Alwayswantsmore's Wadia system, the bass didn't extend as far or have as much weight so pitting an unbalanced 650 against this particular balanced one, I still prefer the unbalanced version. But that's just me. I would think that a vast majority of people would prefer balanced.
Thinking back, I heard another balanced setup and it also was very good. I think in that case I would have preferred it over the unbalanced can. But it was using a very high end Singlepower amp and high end Meridian. (Sorry, I forget the exact models and would hate to be wrong in a guess)
As always, I suppose it comes down to synergy.