Does Bluetooth LDAC default to 32/96khz? Isn't this a massive waste of bandwidth for most sources?
Dec 27, 2021 at 1:34 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 7

HeartsofSpace

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I listen to mainly 16/44 MP3s or FLACs. I noticed when I first activated LDAC on my Android device it defaults to 32/96 connection. This means it has to upsample before transmitting, then transmit ~4x more data, which can't improve the audio quality and could degrade it. Wouldn't it be vastly better for the codec to auto negotiate the bitrate instead of upsampling? The whole point of compression is to squeeze the maximum quality out of limited bitrate.
 
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Dec 27, 2021 at 9:06 PM Post #2 of 7
That's a misunderstanding on how audio works over BT. A true lossless 16bit 44.1kHz audio stream required 1.411 Mbps of PCM data (16 x 44100 x 2 channels = 1411.200 kbps = Redbook standard aka CD quality). BT, since around BT3.0 or so, has a total bandwidth of about 2 Mbps, but around 1 Mbps or so is reserved for basic BT communication purpose so you only get around 1 Mbps or so that audio can use. But this is only when you are in ideal situation. Given BT operates on the open and busy 2.4GHz range, you typical won't get the whole 1 Mbps but a bit less depending on how noisy the environment is. The more interference, the less bandwidth is available.

Now let talks about LDAC - while the L words in the name implies “Lossless”, it is actually a lossy compression codec. Since we already know even 16/44.1 is too big for BT, a true 24bit 96kHz lossless PCM audio stream is just impossible. So the only way to fit LDAC into the limited BT bandwidth is to compress it in lossy fashion. That results in the highest LDAC stream (SQ priority) being just 990 kbps, barely fitting into the 1 Mbps BT limitation and thus why LDAC highest setting often is not stable in a noisy environment. So why do we want 24/96 anyway? Well, because a little bit of digital headroom allow for easier digital volume control and filter implementation in the long run, plus it helps company to advertise for their “newer and better” technology, a la 'Hi-Res'. Tests have shown that LDAC can be audibly transparent on the 16/44.1 level but not quite on the 24/96 level as, again, because it is a lossy codec that is meant to get the best out of the current limited BT audio bandwidth and not because it can actually stream the whole full lossless 24/96 PCM data.
 
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Dec 27, 2021 at 9:37 PM Post #3 of 7
That's a misunderstanding on how audio works over BT. A true lossless 16bit 44.1kHz audio stream required 1.141 Mbps of PCM data (16 x 44100 x 2 channels = 1141.200 kbps = Redbook standard aka CD quality). BT, since around BT3.0 or so, has a total bandwidth of about 2 Mbps, but around 1 Mbps or so is reserved for basic BT communication purpose so you only get around 1 Mbps or so that audio can use. But this is only when you are in ideal situation. Given BT operates on the open and busy 2.4GHz range, you typical won't get the whole 1 Mbps but a bit less depending on how noisy the environment is. The more interference, the less bandwidth is available.

Now let talks about LDAC - while the L words in the name implies “Lossless”, it is actually a lossy compression codec. Since we already know even 16/44.1 is too big for BT, a true 24bit 96kHz lossless PCM audio stream is just impossible. So the only way to fit LDAC into the limited BT bandwidth is to compress it in lossy fashion. That results in the highest LDAC stream (SQ priority) being just 990 kbps, barely fitting into the 1 Mbps BT limitation and thus why LDAC highest setting often is not stable in a noisy environment. So why do we want 24/96 anyway? Well, because a little bit of digital headroom allow for easier digital volume control and filter implementation in the long run, plus it helps company to advertise for their “newer and better” technology, a la 'Hi-Res'. Tests have shown that LDAC can be audibly transparent on the 16/44.1 level but not quite on the 24/96 level as, again, because it is a lossy codec that is meant to get the best out of the current limited BT audio bandwidth and not because it can actually stream the whole full lossless 24/96 PCM data.
Red book 16/44.1 is 1411, not 1141
 
Dec 28, 2021 at 1:19 PM Post #4 of 7
Dec 28, 2021 at 1:25 PM Post #5 of 7
Thanks Faintandfuzzy for the detailed answer. I am still unsure if it's better to manually set Android's LDAC settings to 16/44 since virtually all my listening material is redbook. On my PCs I use SBC-XQ but unfortunately Android doesn't support this natively.

These were interesting reads on LDAC and SBC-XQ:

Audio quality of SBC XQ Bluetooth audio codec

The ultimate guide to Bluetooth headphones: LDAC isn’t Hi-res
It takes extremely high volumes to hear a difference between 16 and 24 bit…and that is only if you are listening to a 24 bit source with that real level of dynamic range. Anything that was recorded in the analog domain has nowhere near 24 bit DR let alone even 16…so there wont be any advantage to higher bit depth. If you are over 30 to 35 years of age, you won’t hear anything above 17 to 18 kHz anyway…thus, the higher sampling will make no difference. Pay more attention to whether a recent remastering has been done as that is where the big differences occur. Leave the LDAC at 16/44 as upsampling adds nothing.
 
Jan 3, 2023 at 9:35 AM Post #6 of 7
It takes extremely high volumes to hear a difference between 16 and 24 bit…and that is only if you are listening to a 24 bit source with that real level of dynamic range. Anything that was recorded in the analog domain has nowhere near 24 bit DR let alone even 16…so there wont be any advantage to higher bit depth. If you are over 30 to 35 years of age, you won’t hear anything above 17 to 18 kHz anyway…thus, the higher sampling will make no difference. Pay more attention to whether a recent remastering has been done as that is where the big differences occur. Leave the LDAC at 16/44 as upsampling adds nothing.
Changing 16/44 to 24/44 or any other i hear a real difference, like 16/44 has more dynamics but the audio gets a bit more "dirty"..
 
Jan 8, 2023 at 6:03 PM Post #7 of 7
Thanks Faintandfuzzy for the detailed answer. I am still unsure if it's better to manually set Android's LDAC settings to 16/44 since virtually all my listening material is redbook. On my PCs I use SBC-XQ but unfortunately Android doesn't support this natively.

These were interesting reads on LDAC and SBC-XQ:

Audio quality of SBC XQ Bluetooth audio codec

The ultimate guide to Bluetooth headphones: LDAC isn’t Hi-res
There's some noticeable noise in the audio depending in the bit/hz you choice, being 16/44.1 the "worst" with noise
 

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