[edstrelow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mobbaddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif I really wanted to try your mod estrelow, but i only did it last evening before reading your post. And i like what i heard I agree with your findings overall. I find that the soundstage is less diffused with my modded LNS, more focused, with a smaller space (sound doesn't spread everywhere) but a better depth and imaging. I'm feeling it as an improvement actually. The bass seems more consistant indeed but i can't be sure because i let my amp warm up for an hour, which i never usually do... and it makes a big difference in the lows. Anyway the bass was solid and tight, and the more focused imaging made me enjoy all kinds of music. A very decent allrounder. I need more listening though, i guess the comparison with the unmodded LNS will be interesting. edit: another interesting point, i really enjoyed low volume listening because the LNS seemed to retain details better while maintaining a good impact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamwhisper /img/forum/go_quote.gif nope, it's nothing short of stunning imo, maybe you should try a different DAC?

I suspected that some people would like the "chamber" around the Lambda. It definitely adds bass however I find it a somewhat bloated bass, rather like the 007A.

Quote:

Originally Posted by n3rdling /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well the way he wears the earpads gives him no seal so I wouldn't be surprised if the O2 isn't that great to him. IME there needs to be a complete seal around the ear with the headpads to get the best sound out of the O2's.

On the assumption you are referring to me and my 007A, your assumption is incorrect. I fully realize that most phones require a proper seal. Some, such as sealed circumaurals or the Lambdas, need a seal to get bass. This is less of an issue with the 007A because it has a port. However with open-back phones you need a seal around the ears to block the backwave from getting to the front and cancelling some sound.

 

[edstrelow]

I was visiting a friend in Blighty last week and was shown his Sennheiser 600's recabled with Cardas.  He was running an Arcam cd player and a Naim headphone amp.  I was struck by how open sounding this set-up was, with a wide soundfield.
 
So back State-side, I warm up my 007A/717 combination and ARRRRRRGGGHHH?  The same mediocre soundstage.

 

[gilency]

Ed. I am stunned. You don't like your 007A???

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

I was visiting a friend in Blighty last week and was shown his Sennheiser 600's recabled with Cardas.  He was running an Arcam cd player and a Naim headphone amp.  I was struck by how open sounding this set-up was, with a wide soundfield.
 
So back State-side, I warm up my 007A/717 combination and ARRRRRRGGGHHH?  The same mediocre soundstage.

If soundstage is that important to you, you really need to try out the HD800. The HD6x0 just don't compare in that regard.

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

 
So back State-side, I warm up my 007A/717 combination and ARRRRRRGGGHHH?  The same mediocre soundstage.

I assume you've already switched the pads back to where they should be, with the seam pointing forwards?  Otherwise the soundstage will always be horrible...

 

[edstrelow]

 
Quote:

Ed. I am stunned. You don't like your 007A???
 
I guess this rant is the same observation as I have made above in this thread.  But whereas previously I was prompted into these thoughts by a comparison with my defoamed Lambdas (i.e. with the foam behind the drivers removed)  this time I was quite shaken by how even an older dynamic could beat the Stax Flagship in this regard at least.

 
Quote:

If soundstage is that important to you, you really need to try out the HD800. The HD6x0 just don't compare in that regard.

I have heard some good HD800 set-ups and they also had a good soundtstage.  However my friend's re-cabled HD600 was very good in a lot of ways including soundstage.  Not that I am planning to go dynamic anytime soon.

 
Quote:

I assume you've already switched the pads back to where they should be, with the seam pointing forwards?  Otherwise the soundstage will always be horrible...

That is correct.  However I can't say that I have ever found the pad orientation to have much effect on soundstage, but rather to affect the frequency response more .  I should do a another set of listenings .
 
 
 
I still think the problem is the case behind the 007 drivers.  It should be perforated  where it is solid metal.  My tape experiments with the Lambdas show that when you put this type of enclosure behind the Lambda drivers you get you give them the 007's combination of
compressed soundstage and some what muddy bass.
 
Is it possible to just take the back case off and still run the 007's that way?.  I would like to hear them, without the enclosure,  to check on what I think is wrong here.

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

 
So back State-side, I warm up my 007A/717 combination and ARRRRRRGGGHHH?  The same mediocre soundstage.

Though I have my complaints about OII, mediocre soundstaging isn't one of them.  I still don't quite understand why headphones have to have soundstaging similar to speakers.  When I listen to my speakers, I enjoy them for what they are, including but not at all limited to the speaker soundstaging, which by the way has little correlation to how the band/singer "soundstaged" at the live venue/studio anyway.  
 
OII's "soundstage" (why even call it that?) sounds great to me, in line with what I expect from headphones, not detracting from the music at hand.  
 
How much is the "spring mod" supposed to fix the OII Mk2 problems anyway?  I'm talking about OII Mk1..
 

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

How much is the "spring mod" supposed to fix the OII Mk2 problems anyway?  I'm talking about OII Mk  

On the first models is cleaned up the midrange but now that Stax has changed the Mk2/A's I can't be sure if the mod is still needed.  I need to rip one of these apart...

 

[edstrelow]

Quote:

Though I have my complaints about OII, mediocre soundstaging isn't one of them.  I still don't quite understand why headphones have to have soundstaging similar to speakers.  When I listen to my speakers, I enjoy them for what they are, including but not at all limited to the speaker soundstaging, which by the way has little correlation to how the band/singer "soundstaged" at the live venue/studio anyway.  
 
OII's "soundstage" (why even call it that?) sounds great to me, in line with what I expect from headphones, not detracting from the music at hand.  
 
How much is the "spring mod" supposed to fix the OII Mk2 problems anyway?  I'm talking about OII Mk1..
 

The term "soundstage" is a bit ambiguous.  I think it is a broader term than stereo imaging.  Mostly I think of it as the apparent width of the sonic image, but it also involves the ambience produced within the image.

I would certainly hope that headphones don't have  a soundstage like speakers.  The imaging aspect of the soundstage should be BETTER because of the absence of the spurious phantom channels created by speaker listening. Phones give you  a pure left or right channel sound, comparable to what your ears would get in a real-life listening experience.  Speakers feed both channels to both ears, messing up the spatial information, but don't get me started on this. 
 
The 007 has a somewhat small left-right spread of sound, compared to say my defoamed Lambdas and my friends re-cabled HD600.  The greater spread sounds more interesting and realistic to me.  By comparison with a live concert, a small soundstage would be more llike being at the back of the hall, large soundstage like being towards the front, where instruments of say, an orchestra would be spread out in front of you.
 
I realize that not everyone likes a wide soundstage, hence the popularity of channel blend-type controls which mix the channels together and will definitely shrink the apparent width of the sonic field.   This is often claimed to make headphone sound more speaker-like.  Some people evidently get dizzy or something with a wide soundfield and lots of instrumental separation.  I personally find it exciting, except in a few old recordings from the 50's and 60's where the channel separation information is exaggerated.(some Beatles, Credence Clearwater etc.)  I can only say to those who don't like a wide sound field,  try monaural sound using pre-stereo recordings or the L+R switch on your pre-amp (if it has this).
 
As regards the ideal soundstage, I don't feel that you get it with conventional phones,  even though you can get remarkable imaging.  I think the best soundstage is found in the Sigmas or the AKG K1000 which really do try to recreate a life-like soundfield by placing the drivers ahead of the ears.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/464873/stax-sigmas-compared-low-bias-sigma-pro-and-sigma-404

 

[Shahrose]

You hit the nail on the head with your analysis of soundstage.

 

[mobbaddict]

After spending some time with my SR-007 Mk1 i actually find its soundstage quite wider than that of my LNS. The latter sounds very upfront in comparison. The SR-007 Mk1 is more laid back and just as open. I don't remember the Mk2 being as linear and polite.

 

[Clarkmc2]

Quote:

After spending some time with my SR-007 Mk1 i actually find its soundstage quite wider than that of my LNS. The latter sounds very upfront in comparison. The SR-007 Mk1 is more laid back and just as open. I don't remember the Mk2 being as linear and polite.

The frequency response character of the Mk2 depends on three things - what you drive it with, what you drive it with, and what you drive it with. The late model Mk 2 I have seems to be lacking for nothing if I give it enough very high quality power. It is one of the examples Spritzer heard at CanJam Chicago. I tried it on, among other things, Dr. Gilmore's T2. That proved to me that any frequency fault you may find with the Mk 2 has nothing to do with the headphones.
 
John Coltrane may have passed away but he was in the high end room that day.
 
Clark

 

[Lunatique]

I didn't think the 007MKII's soundstage is constricted, and in fact I found it very natural and detailed--to the point where I just couldn't care less about whatever soundstage concerns. Also, the mastering engineers have already decided how spacious a recording should sound with proper use of EQ and reverb, and if a recording was meant to sound spacious, it would've been mastered as so. To try to create fake soundstage when it didn't exist in the recording would be less than ideal to me.
 
Another reason soundstage is never a concern for me is because my main source is the computer, and I always use Isone Pro when I listen with headphones. I have my Isone Pro setup to sound very close to the positioning of my Klein + Hummel O 300D's in my studio, so basically all my headphones sound like speakers in an ideal room without problematic room modes.

 

[edstrelow]

Quote:

I didn't think the 007MKII's soundstage is constricted, and in fact I found it very natural and detailed--to the point where I just couldn't care less about whatever soundstage concerns. Also, the mastering engineers have already decided how spacious a recording should sound with proper use of EQ and reverb, and if a recording was meant to sound spacious, it would've been mastered as so. To try to create fake soundstage when it didn't exist in the recording would be less than ideal to me.
 
Another reason soundstage is never a concern for me is because my main source is the computer, and I always use Isone Pro when I listen with headphones. I have my Isone Pro setup to sound very close to the positioning of my Klein + Hummel O 300D's in my studio, so basically all my headphones sound like speakers in an ideal room without problematic room modes.

The 007 is a master of detail, but soundstaging, in terms of openness is in my opinion, is somewhat restricted compared to the Lambda line, especially after the back foam is removed.   It will be interesting to see how the new Lambda 507 will stack up.