[Prog Rock Man]

True, which actually makes copyright infringements more risky than theft. If you get charged with theft to convict you there has to be proof beyond all reasonable doubt. With copyright it is a civil matter so the burden of proof is the lesser balance of probabilities. 
 
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

 

[redshifter]

Quote:

True, which actually makes copyright infringements more risky than theft. If you get charged with theft to convict you there has to be proof beyond all reasonable doubt. With copyright it is a civil matter so the burden of proof is the lesser balance of probabilities. 
 
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

Interesting. Propaganda-wise, you point a finger and shout "COPYRIGHT INFRINGER!!" everyone goes "Huh? What?" You point a finger and shout "THIEF!" you get a very different reaction.

 

[moriez]

Quote:

Thanks for taking our criticism of you moriez so well. 

 

 

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Where I used to live there was a racked involving pirated films and the main guy was sacked from his job as well as fined. In the UK being found in possession of pirated films tends to mean you have the films seized. You then get a civil fine based on what it is thought you would have made if you had sold them and how long it is believed you have been pirating stuff. The US appears to have a very hard line approach, as did the Swedes with the Pirate Bay lot;
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8003799.stm

 

[leeperry]

She must have seriously annoyed a jury who were all struggling musicians whilst being defended by the worlds most inept lawyer.

 
yes, the legal system in the US is ridiculous...just like the fact that they still don't use the metric system, sheesh.
 
I saw a documentary on TV the other day, and in the US the jury takes all the decisions....reason why trials are always avoided as much as possible, and also the reason why ppl get paid millions of dollars for a coffee that was too hot. This **** would never happen in other countries, and I don't think the RIAA would get so much money for online copyright infringement anywhere outside the US. I've seen similar cases in France, Spain, Italy, Netherlands....the judges most of the time call it a day and tell the RIAA to **** ***. Except when the ppl were selling bootlegs, this is undefendable to SELL pirate copies.
 

True, which actually makes copyright infringements more risky than theft.

 
Depends....w/ the 3 strikes laws in the US, stealing four chocolate chip cookies can buy you lifetime jail: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_strikes_law

 

[leeperry]

I think Bjork nailed it pretty nicely: http://unit.bjork.com/specials/albums/medulla/pirate/index.htm

You know, it's ironic that just at the point the lawyers
and the businessmen had calculated how to control music,
the internet comes along and ***** everything up...
God bless the internet...
I'll still be there, waving a pirate flag.

 

[chia-pet]

Quote from http://topics.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articlei from the United States Constitution:

The Congress shall have power to... promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

 
My interpretation of the above clause is that government is concerned with protecting a citizen's right to their intellectual property for a limited period of time, so that they can profit from it, after which it is available to anyone for use, for the betterment of society (emphasis placed on limited time and the ultimate goal of bettering society).
 
The documentary covers the defense of artists not garnering enough profit, and it covers the rationalization of those not well-to-do in justifying their actions.  I believe it can benefit from covering the perspective that piracy has had a galvanizing effect on peoples' quality-of-life, especially to underdeveloped parts of the world, due to the non-existent cost of reproduction and distribution, and also how the government ultimately has a vested interest in the propagation and absorption of intellectual property to aid us in advancing as a society.  It would also be informative to compare and contrast the intellectual property rights of other nations, particularly those that house websites that facilitate pirating.

 

[chia-pet]

I must reply again just to say that MrGreen's reference Kohlberg's stages of moral development (on page 5 of this thread) was superbly relevant to this discussion.  Thanks for that MrGreen.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohlberg's_stages_of_moral_development

 

[jp_zer0]

Quote:

I think Bjork nailed it pretty nicely: http://unit.bjork.com/specials/albums/medulla/pirate/index.htm

Yes, it touches on the point that the question of piracy is a not a function of truth but power.
 
You can sit in your chair and proclaim that "file sharing is theft and theft is wrong and there's nothing you can say about it." but it's not gonna stop anyone from downloading. There's no inherent truth to what is morally right IMO, just people fighting for their interests.
 
If it so happens that it's money that makes good music and the industry collapses... (I don't buy that even for a second) Then the rich people will want music and will pay people to write music for them and the history of industrial music will start anew. Meanwhile we will have 200 years of recorded music to hold us over. I say bring it on, I'll get my free music and I'm willing to live with the worst case scenario. (which I hold barely any causal effect over while I profit immensely and immediately from file sharing.)

 

[jfeser2]

The problem with discouraging piracy is that the people who complain the loudest are also the people that no one sympathizes with.  No one feels sorry for the huge corporate interests, so no one cares when they complain about file sharing.  If some artists who were really struggling got up and asked people to pay for their music instead of stealing it, people might listen.  Maybe this has already happened, but I have not heard about it.  That points to the impossibility of the situation.  The people who might actually be hurt are in the worst position to complain about it.  

 

[moriez]

True. No one cares for huge corporate interests but theres lots of small labels that are nowhere near wealthy. Saying that artists have to ask us to pay them I can no longer agree on. They already asked us by putting a price on the item and it should be kind of logical that when theres a price on something one should pay for it. I dont want to crusade on anyone but why wouldnt we pay the people that bring us such joy. Pay for joy, I say, yes please

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Do those who file share target the big corporations and leave the smaller independents or artist own labels alone? No, they do not, it is just yet another pathetic attempt to excuse their desire to take what is not theirs to take. 

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Quote:

The problem with discouraging piracy is that the people who complain the loudest are also the people that no one sympathizes with.  No one feels sorry for the huge corporate interests, so no one cares when they complain about file sharing.  If some artists who were really struggling got up and asked people to pay for their music instead of stealing it, people might listen.  Maybe this has already happened, but I have not heard about it.  That points to the impossibility of the situation.  The people who might actually be hurt are in the worst position to complain about it.  

Plenty of examples here of musicians against piracy
 
 http://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz=1C1SVEA_enGB361GB362&aq=f&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=musicians+against+piracy
 
This is an argument akin to claiming you had only ever heard that Wallmart had complained about shoplifting and not small independent shops, so because Wallmart is a "evil" corporation, it is OK to shoplift from any shop. Er, no.

 

[ddrddrddrddr]

Well, along side piracy prevention is violation of privacy. How do you enforce one without the other? In the end it's a waste of resources. Artists can make money off of live concerts if they're talented. Electronic distribution systems was a step in the right direction too. Online games can also live off of ads and perks, I don't see why they don't try that rout. Piracy won't die as long as internet exist, it will outlive cockroaches.

 

[Prog Rock Man]

The lets bother as it is too difficult argument.