[SonicDawg]

I have been building my dynamic system around the K340s and feel that I have come to the highground enough (!) Now that I am always itching for some new sound, though I've already got a pretty good alternative sound from the Koss A250(clean and fast, as opposed to the warm and full sound of AKG). I have been curious about the 'stats sounds, though arguably the K340s should have half of the traits. What do you think is the model that is on par with the AKG in terms of performance but with different approach to sound (a la Koss, albeit better)?

edit: grammar...

 

[jjcha]

I think you're looking in the right direction. I don't find that the K 340 sounds particularly electrostatic to me - it has that full body and weight that characterizes a dynamic headphone's sound. So if you're looking for lighter, cleaner, faster (and much lighter, cleaner and faster) alternative to your K 340, the SR-404 should be a good compliment.

Best regards,

-Jason

 

[SonicDawg]

thx for the info. I have heard people characterizing the stax as "thin" or "overly bright". I do have a dislike for "shouty" sound, as I have sometimes with the A250. Could this be more of a system matching issue?

 

[M0T0XGUY]

I personally wouldn't worry about those claims. Generally speaking, people like to exaggerate a headphone's problems or strengths, and the lack of deep bass is one such exaggeration for most of Stax's products. I say you should go for it, electrostatics are simply unmatched for their speed and clarity, and the 404's are definitly ample in the bass department.

 

[patrickamory]

I own both, and if you get the 404, I suspect you'll be spending more time with than you did with the K-340.

 

[SonicDawg]

Just another question: Is there such a thing as balanced 'stats? There's a humming problem with my source's SE mode.

As for the new sound, I guess the great things that will always bind me to the K340s are their bass and mids; though it will be great to see what the other presentation will sound like. Based on the Stax's current street price, I think they are on par with my dynamic setup (price-wise).

Btw, how many of you heard the Koss A250s? How 'stat-like do they sound? I really dig them for what they are, completely different stroke of flavor.

 

[Blackmore]

Because you are looking for something different than K340 Stax may be a good choice. I have spend some time with OII and SRS 4040 at the last meet and in the beginning I was really surprised, with OII I mean, but after some longer listening I realize that STAX isn't for me at all. Especially when I was listened to some JAZZ on vinyl set up. They didn't do nothing for me. I even found them to boring after comparing them with K1000.

 

[SonicDawg]

Well, I highly doubt that I will neglect the K340s for anything, especially an antithesis of its sound. They are just too seductive to be left alone

However, every now and then I will put on the A250s and groove to some different music, only to find that I am missing the smooth midrange of the AKG always beckoning at me. The A250s are simply too dry sounding, even with a very warm system to begin with. That is why I am wary of such a midrange dryness usually associated with "fast and clean" sounding headphones. But who knows, may be the Stax will be what I am after all these time: speed, clarity AND warmth?

 

[Blackmore]

But of course, trying a new phones is very good thing and maybe they are for you. But liking K340 bring me more closer to K1 than to Stax. However I found GS1 as a great compliment to my K1 after all, while in the beginning I wasn't that positive about them, so what do I know...

Let us know

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicDawg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, I highly doubt that I will neglect the K340s for anything, especially an antithesis of its sound. They are just too seductive to be left alone However, every now and then I will put on the A250s and groove to some different music, only to find that I am missing the smooth midrange of the AKG always beckoning at me. The A250s are simply too dry sounding, even with a very warm system to begin with. That is why I am wary of such a midrange dryness usually associated with "fast and clean" sounding headphones. But who knows, may be the Stax will be what I am after all these time: speed, clarity AND warmth?

 

[facelvega]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicDawg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, I highly doubt that I will neglect the K340s for anything, especially an antithesis of its sound. They are just too seductive to be left alone However, every now and then I will put on the A250s and groove to some different music, only to find that I am missing the smooth midrange of the AKG always beckoning at me. The A250s are simply too dry sounding, even with a very warm system to begin with. That is why I am wary of such a midrange dryness usually associated with "fast and clean" sounding headphones. But who knows, may be the Stax will be what I am after all these time: speed, clarity AND warmth?

SD, everything you say here makes me think you're the perfect candidate for some vintage orthodynamics, say Yamaha or Fostex. They require a bit of modding, but nothing like what the K340 require. And they will fit what you're saying you want almost exactly. Mind you, I'm speaking having owned a K340 and still owning an A250. I sold the K340 because the orthos gave me everything I wanted from it but could only really get at high volume.

But if you're willing to cough up new Stax prices, then why not consider the fabled Taket H2 that Duggeh reviewed (or proto-reviewed, I guess) a while back, the cheaper AMT-Piezo competitor for the orpheus and omega II? They're supposed to be the bassiest and warmest of the three crown contenders.

 

[Duggeh]

I havent done that review yet actually. It'd be done but for exams atm.

On the OP question, I think once you go SR-404 your K340 will see gradually less and less use. The Electrostatic sound can seem alien at first but its addictive. Eventually all but the very best, and sometimes not even then, conventional dynamics just dont cut it. Electrostatics are all driven balanced, even from a singled ended source, so yes they are ready and waiting for your XLRs.

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicDawg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, I highly doubt that I will neglect the K340s for anything, especially an antithesis of its sound. They are just too seductive to be left alone However, every now and then I will put on the A250s and groove to some different music, only to find that I am missing the smooth midrange of the AKG always beckoning at me. The A250s are simply too dry sounding, even with a very warm system to begin with. That is why I am wary of such a midrange dryness usually associated with "fast and clean" sounding headphones. But who knows, may be the Stax will be what I am after all these time: speed, clarity AND warmth?

The normal bias Lambda fits this exactly and the SR-X Mk3 is a very good choice as well but the Lambda is a better phone in every regard. The best part is that they are cheap when compared to the inferior Lambda Pro's. The newer models have better resolution and clarity while the older phones are very musical and forgiving.

 

[jjcha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif The normal bias Lambda fits this exactly and the SR-X Mk3 is a very good choice as well but the Lambda is a better phone in every regard. The best part is that they are cheap when compared to the inferior Lambda Pro's. The newer models have better resolution and clarity while the older phones are very musical and forgiving.

I agree that the normal biased are more musical and forgiving than the more resolving, less tamed Pros and SR404s. So for the original poster who's looking for a bit more warmth, the additional thickness of the older normal bias may be the way to go.

But I'm not convinced that the Pros are "inferior". I think if you set up systems to balance and bring out the performance of each, I can't help think that you can work with the Pros to balance them out to be musical and forgiving, while you can't quite achieve the same resolution and clarity with the normal-based ones. I dunno, I haven't worked that much with either rig, but that's just my initial thoughts on comparing the two out of a few different setups.

But yeah, the normal biased ones are dirt cheap and truly one of the best bargains in audio today.

Best regards,

-Jason

 

[catscratch]

I have both. The SR-404 isn't a complete antithesis; both headphones are detailed and fast. The 404 has a much bigger soundstage, better extension top and bottom, and has a very different tonal balance, stressing bass and treble at the expense of the midrange. It's not lacking in bass at all, having more bass than my bass-light K340, but it doesn't have the same tactile bass slam as the K340.

I also have the A250, and honestly, the 404 sounds a lot like it, though it's not nearly as bright as the A250. The same problems with upper midrange prominence, thin midrange sound and slight shoutiness overall apply to the SR-404, though to a lesser degree. Of course, it's much better than the A250 in nearly all respects, and especially in treble quality (I can't stand the A250's strident, metallic treble, whereas the 404 is excellent in the highs).

If you're used to the absolutely pristine midrange of the K340, you will not like the 404. It's midrange is colored, and everything has a sort of electric glow and lustre. Tone color is very desaturated next to the K340, and instruments sound thinner and more metallic. The K340 also has more focused imaging - the 404 can sound somewhat blurred with softened leading edges, though it resolves a bit more detail than the K340. I suppose silver cables might help the 404 here.

I like the 404 on electronic music where it's midrange doesn't matter. I really don't like it on music with a lot of vocals, especially female vocals, which sound brittle and thin.

If you do go the 404 route match it up with tubes. The 007t is a very nice amp for it. You will want a warm punchy source that stresses the lower midrange as well.

I think the K340 has more potential in a high-end system due to a better tonal balance and less flaws overall. The 404 is technically a better headphone, but it's flaws make it less appealing as a listening experience. My opinion has shifted more times than Jersey weather when it comes to these headphones, and it simply comes down to being able to live with their flaws. On some music, I can do it, and on other music, I can't.

Last note... The 404 is very sensitive to warm-up. It's midrange coloration becomes less pronounced after about an hour of music at a normal listening volume. I don't think this is due to acclimatization to the headphones' coloration, since I usually let them play to themselves at a moderate volume for an hour before serious critical listening. When listening to them from scratch, the sound seems to change a good deal in the first hour becoming more balanced. Of course, this is a very subjective evaluation.

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjcha /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree that the normal biased are more musical and forgiving than the more resolving, less tamed Pros and SR404s. So for the original poster who's looking for a bit more warmth, the additional thickness of the older normal bias may be the way to go. But I'm not convinced that the Pros are "inferior". I think if you set up systems to balance and bring out the performance of each, I can't help think that you can work with the Pros to balance them out to be musical and forgiving, while you can't quite achieve the same resolution and clarity with the normal-based ones. I dunno, I haven't worked that much with either rig, but that's just my initial thoughts on comparing the two out of a few different setups. But yeah, the normal biased ones are dirt cheap and truly one of the best bargains in audio today. Best regards, -Jason

The normal models are very musical but the "kettle cable" on some of them makes them sound harsh and strained. This adds to the underlying brightness in some models so go with the ribbon cable if you can.

I wasn't referring to the Pro phones in general but rather the Lambda Pro's. They are IMO a large step back from the SR-Lambda and then the SR-Lambda Signature is better then both of them. It is possible to mask the sonic signature with careful system matching but the deficiencies will always shine through no matter what you do.