[Pat H]

So after getting a brand new replacement for my defective SE-530s (Thanks, Shure!), I decided to sit down and listen to some CDs I had ripped recently, including MuteMath and 30 Seconds to Mars. To my surprise, some of the tracks that sounded ok on my mid-grade desktop speakers were intolerable on the Shure's. Vocals were drowned out by bass and louder choruses were a mess. Then, on the other hand, if I put on some Jazz, Classical or older rock like The Eagles and Fleetwood Mac, the clarity and imaging you'd expect from high-grade phone's were back in all their glory.

So are some of these pop-rock/alternative albums really that horribly mastered? And what makes these "noisy" tracks sound less harsh on lower-end speakers? I started a thread a while back on mastering, but I've started noticing this night and day difference between different recordings A LOT recently. Just wanted to get some of your thoughts.

 

[tstarn06]

Agree, not so much about modern pop-rock, but how much the recording quality (is that the right word?) affects how much I enjoy my great IEMs and players. It is not about bit rate, but about the musical source. I can barely listen to some of my favorite tracks any more as a result, but singers like Holly Cole, or great jazz, have never sounded better.

 

[3X0]

Ever try listening to The White Stripes on a pair of JH13s?

 

[Pat H]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Agree, not so much about modern pop-rock, but how much the recording quality (is that the right word?) affects how much I enjoy my great IEMs and players. It is not about bit rate, but about the musical source. I can barely listen to some of my favorite tracks any more as a result, but singers like Holly Cole, or great jazz, have never sounded better.

I know exactly where you're coming from with favorite songs becoming unbearable. A few of my favorites have been ruined since I got my 530s. But on the other hand, I've gotten a new appreciation for some more "traditional" music. One of my relatives had a Miles Davis CD lying around so I asked them if I might be able to rip it to my laptop. WOW. The sound quality and 3-D sound-stage floored me. The same recording on everyday average speakers sounds ok, but nothing like the Shure's.

But it's all a trade-off I guess. A lot of the "top 40" sound AWFUL with these IEMs. Distortion and "muddiness" galore. I'm just having trouble determining whether the recording quality is really that bad or whether the sound-sig of the 530s are just geared toward Jazz and Classical.

 

[SactoMan101]

I've heard the recently remastered Beatles albums on my 4G iPod nano (I ripped the Revolver CD with 320 kbps AAC) and gawd, you can hear just about everything with my brother's Shure SE420 IEM's using Comply T-100 eartips. As such, they may expose the way modern albums are mixed down.

 

[ClieOS]

Not just the IEM, I actually find older mp3 player plays 128kbps music much better than any of my modern players.

This is my first mp3 player, Jazpiper (rebrand of MPIO, which I believe it is the 3rd or 4th commercially released mp3 player in history). It actually makes 128kbps and some 96kbps music sound almost like 256kbps. The same music sounds like cr*p in my newer players.

(next to my Sansa Fuze)

 

[iPoodz]

Pure speculation here, but it would probably be in the best interest of the producers of pop music to *not* have intricacies that would add to the value of the music, if their target market listens using iBuds at 75% of maximum volume (disclaimer: I used to be one). They need to make music (content sometimes, but quality of production) tailored to the lowest common denominator.

You don't see kids who bought the latest Wal-Mart featured artist's album complaining about drowned out vocals or poor mastering. Nor do they care about the tinny highs and muddy bass that their iBuds provide.

The problem then becomes that music is not timeless, and when those kids discover head-fi, and by some nice phones, they won't be able to enjoy the music they loved as kids, for reasons like this.

Now, I'm not saying iBuds are the reason that newer tracks lose interestingness under further scrutiny, but I'm saying that production should be done at higher standards, so that repeat listenings are rewarded by discovering unheard things. After getting ADDIEMs, and most recently S4s, I'm going back and rediscovering nice gifts in my favorite jazz like the bassist fudging a note or two in the lowest register, only to jump back on the train. Even small things like hearing breaths you hadn't heard before (applicable to alt-rock or almost any genre) is the coolest feeling, imho.

 

[slntdth93]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iPoodz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Pure speculation here, but it would probably be in the best interest of the producers of pop music to *not* have intricacies that would add to the value of the music, if their target market listens using iBuds at 75% of maximum volume (disclaimer: I used to be one). They need to make music (content sometimes, but quality of production) tailored to the lowest common denominator. You don't see kids who bought the latest Wal-Mart featured artist's album complaining about drowned out vocals or poor mastering. Nor do they care about the tinny highs and muddy bass that their iBuds provide. The problem then becomes that music is not timeless, and when those kids discover head-fi, and by some nice phones, they won't be able to enjoy the music they loved as kids, for reasons like this. Now, I'm not saying iBuds are the reason that newer tracks lose interestingness under further scrutiny, but I'm saying that production should be done at higher standards, so that repeat listenings are rewarded by discovering unheard things. After getting ADDIEMs, and most recently S4s, I'm going back and rediscovering nice gifts in my favorite jazz like the bassist fudging a note or two in the lowest register, only to jump back on the train. Even small things like hearing breaths you hadn't heard before (applicable to alt-rock or almost any genre) is the coolest feeling, imho.

so agree to that. any mainstream music (for teens), ive tried tonnes of places to get a good track and i can hear the highs crackle like crazy. And this is with not the most sensitive headphones (HD555) and it gets really annoying with the distortion.

 

[Hsiu]

why spend so much time and resource to make music that people will only listen for 1 season with iBud and 128kb ripping ? their is absolutely no reason to do so. most people don't care that much about sound quality nor their equipment can reproduce such detail. instead of spend so much resource on one music that with no hope of selling forever. company will make money spread the resource to make a lot of music to gain more profit. even without talking about money. we know all earphone sound different. if most people use low quality equipment why tune music to fit better with high end one. For long time, I didn't listen to American pop music as I never feel they are that well made. not to be insulting but a lot of music is poorly compose. they are even worst than many of the well produced Anime song. I don't understand a word in Japanese but I always found their anime song better composed and the voice of single amazing. I may be bias but go check out the songs and music from Anime "Macross Frontier" they are nice.

 

[lisztian420]

I think it's universal, 99% of pop sux!

Now when it comes to a record's production quality, it really depends on the bands.
I think most self-respected artists will find good engineers to produce decent quality recording.

 

[krmathis]

A lot of the modern pop-rock is mastered/mixed horribly. Read: loudness war...
I bet that is part of why you find it to sound horrible.

 

[jaw2ek]

OP: What codecs/bitrates are you using? I agree that a lot of contemporary pop/rock is mastered horribly, but could be also your files?

 

[knugge]

This is an interesting topic indeed and it has been debated widely on different forums here in Sweden. My take is that you can find really revealing and transparent sounding gear that still lets you listen to most of your favorite music, however it's difficult to find the right combination of equipment. My experience is solely based on homefi and I have no experience with portable highend setups. Problem is that some of, what I call midfi, is not really that good. The manufacturers tend to make bad choices when they compromise (yes they do compromise) which leads them to make products that impress rather than do right. And they do know what impresses us (usually a lot of hige frequency detail). This high frequency detail then becomes a real problem for some lesser recordings and since there is not enough midrange and bass frequency resolution in the sound it gets tintet towards bright, sibilant, flat and unlistenable. The really good systems don't do that. These systems have a better balance between the frequencies and have enough midrange and bass resolution to not require a raised high frequency response. So, all in all what is needed is good resolution in the entire audible frequency response curve. If you have that you don't have to raise the treble to induce the illusion of resolution.

 

[thwood3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by krmathis /img/forum/go_quote.gif A lot of the modern pop-rock is mastered/mixed horribly. Read: loudness war... I bet that is part of why you find it to sound horrible.

Read: loudness war... YES!... [size=x-large]I READ YOU LOUD AND CLEAR... ER... NOT SO CLEAR![/size]

 

[tstarn06]

I may sound crazy, but even some of my classic rock (Zep, Dead, for example) just don't sound all that on my portable gear, especially Amp3 or Sony X with Grados or UM3X respectively. I keep returning to jazz, vocals, acoustic, swing, etc. Maybe it's just the genres. Not saying the Dead et al sound horrible, but just not on the same level as Renaud Garcia-Fons or Jackson Browne for that matter. Anyway, it is an intersting topic. And how about trying to listen to old stuff, like the Temptations (Motown in general) for we older people. Better off using the home sound system with speakers for that stuff, I guess. After all, many of us first heard that music on terrible stereo systems and even AM radio. Then again, there are the Beach Boys and the Beatles and their best recordings...