Do solid state amplifiers sound the same ?

[betula]

Exactly, which is why we do not follow that logic. What we actually follow is the other (verifiable) logic/rational possibility I explained!

Just curious, but do you think it’s acceptable to simply make-up unsubstantiated claims and falsely present them as facts anywhere at all, even places that are not specifically science forums?

G

As always, I am only sharing my own experience. You seem a bit tense, mate.

Topping A50III, you're welcome.

It can amplify the original signal, without modification, better than the best measurement tool we have can measure. Nobody knows how good it really is, but the the APX555B can verify that it reproduces the original Signal with an accuracy of 99.999948% (The limit of the measuring tool) and it has an SNR of 144db (146db is the theoretical limit).

So it is basically perfect.

I am not keen on Topping amplifiers, thanks. They sound sterile and boring to me. (Except maybe the DX9. That was quite nice.)

 

[Whazzzup]

Well topping must make there amps faulty…lol)

 

[Vamp898]

As always, I am only sharing my own experience. You seem a bit tense, mate.

I am not keen on Topping amplifiers, thanks. They sound sterile and boring to me. (Except maybe the DX9. That was quite nice.)

What Headphones do you use? And what Music do you listen to?

 

[Vamp898]

Well topping must make there amps faulty…lol)

If you tried to make a joke, all you did was to proof that you did not understand the topic that is also funny, but rather sad funny.

 

[betula]

What Headphones do you use? And what Music do you listen to?

It is all on my profile page.
These days I mostly listen to the Caldera open, Caldera closed and Bokeh.
Quite a wide range of genres:
30% EDM (psychedelic/progressive trance, ambient, psybient, downtempo, electronica)
25% female vocals
20% viking, norse, folk
15% rock, pop, trip-hop, chill
5% classical
5% other

 

[Vamp898]

It is all on my profile page.
These days I mostly listen to the Caldera open, Caldera closed and Bokeh.

Ah i understand. So what you experience is the sound of your Headphones, not the Amp.

The Amp has, scientifically proofed, no sound. It sounds exactly like the sound wave you put into them. So at first i thought it might be the music, but you listen to so many divers genres, that its almost impossible.

But i know the ZMF Headphones very well. People are constantly discussing what amps and cables make them sound better and when you use the wrong amp, they sound exactly as you described.

So i assume, those Headphones have an very sterile and boring sound (at least the people who own these say, that they sound that way when you use and correct measuring amp and recommend amps that modify the sound).

But again, the Topping A50 III has no "Sound", it sounds exactly like what you put into it.

I would be very surprised if the 0.000052% of changes in the around -140db Region would really change the sound that much, that you would be able to hear that.

Non of you r Headphones can output 140db, so non of your headphones get loud enough to make that difference audible. So what you're hearing is just your music and your Headphones. And one of those two produce and boring and sterile sound.

 

[betula]

Ah i understand. So what you experience is the sound of your Headphones, not the Amp.

The Amp has, scientifically proofed, no sound. It sounds exactly like the sound wave you put into them. So at first i thought it might be the music, but you listen to so many divers genres, that its almost impossible.

But i know the ZMF Headphones very well. People are constantly discussing what amps and cables make them sound better and when you use the wrong amp, they sound exactly as you described.

So i assume, those Headphones have an very sterile and boring sound (at least the people who own these say, that they sound that way when you use and correct measuring amp and recommend amps that modify the sound).

But again, the Topping A50 III has no "Sound", it sounds exactly like what you put into it.

I would be very surprised if the 0.000052% of changes in the around -140db Region would really change the sound that much, that you would be able to hear that.

Non of you r Headphones can output 140db, so non of your headphones get loud enough to make that difference audible. So what you're hearing is just your music and your Headphones. And one of those two produce and boring and sterile sound.

Haha! Let's leave it at that.

 

[Whazzzup]

If you tried to make a joke, all you did was to proof that you did not understand the topic that is also funny, but rather sad funny.

Well I’m glad you laughed and got sad.

 

[Vamp898]

Haha! Let's leave it at that.

With Haha?

I think you still did not understand that we are in the Sound Science Forum here

Why are there so many people in the Sound Science Forum who do not want to talk about Sound Science. i don't get it.

Seriously, what are you doing here? What is your goal? That we all should stop caring about understanding how things work and just accept, that the most expensive is the best and that all marketing is true.

It sometimes feels like discussing with flat earth believers here. In the Sony Walkman thread there are people who believe, no joke, that vaccines have been invented to kill us and i am pretty sure that saurian people live in the earth core and control world leaders or i don't know.

It makes sense. When you believe in every marketing article from every company, you probably believe just everything in general.

Why are there so many voodoo priests going in this forum trying to justify the insane amount of money the threw out of the window on mediocre sounding gear?

Nobody of us here will justify your irresponsible buying behavior. It was your decision, life with it. You don't need our blessing on your purchase and nobody here will give it to you (i am pretty sure).

Sometimes you life more happy and easy without knowledge. You just buy the most expensive with the best marketing and in your head, you have the best and you can be happy. Why start questioning if it really is the best and then even fight against the truth.

Just stop questioning, accept that marketing tells you the truth and think you have the best and be happy. Sometimes, being happy is worth more than the burden of knowledge.

 

[gregorio]

As always, I am only sharing my own experience. You seem a bit tense, mate.

What do you mean “as always”, you did NOT “share your own experience”. What you actually did was make-up a false assertion (probably to fallaciously explain your experience) and then falsely presented it as an actual fact, then you repeated it again in the very same post but in regards to DACs, therefore you yourself have disproved “as always”!

So just to be clear, when accused and called out for making false assertions and presenting them as fact, your response is to make-up a false assertion and present it as fact. What rational, honest person would not be a “bit tense” in response to that BS, let alone in a science discussion forum?!

G

 

[MiffyRabbit]

Firstly, once upon a time Audio Engineers of all types used to contribute regularly to the audiophile world, because of course pretty much every audio engineer is an “audiophile” in the literal sense. However, the number willing to engage with the audiophile community has gradually reduced to almost zero, as they were systematically forced out by marketers with an opposite agenda to the science/facts and those zealots entirely suckered by it. For several decades now, engineers have viewed the audiophile community as just a bunch of deluded nutters who get upset and aggressive when presented with actual facts, so they just avoid it. With very few exceptions, the only engineers who do engage with the audiophile community, typically do so in the role of marketer (rather than engineer) and therefore need to perpetuate at least some of the audiophile myths. So audiophiles cannot now demand engineers to contribute when they’ve spent decades deliberately discrediting and flaming them!!

G

Hey Greg! that actually really helped answer a question I had in my head. Essentially, people in the audiophile community are stuck with engineers like Rob Watts for instance.
Basically a marketer maybe using engineering concepts to solidify ideas for selling the product.

I love music, movies as they are essential parts of my life. But I can't help but notice a lot of audiophiles that I know are more interested into the audio equipment than listening to the actual music, they have to listen to the $2,000 amp/dac setup otherwise music is unlistenable without it.

I understand I am at head-fi, I see a lot of nice equipment people have here. The idea of audiophile is to enjoy sounds, music but I feel like many of us are too much into the equipment rather than what we set out to enjoy.

 

[gregorio]

Essentially, people in the audiophile community are stuck with engineers like Rob Watts for instance.
Basically a marketer maybe using engineering concepts to solidify ideas for selling the product.

Yep, you’ve got it and Rob Watts is a good example. A lot of what he says is entirely true and audiophiles could learn a lot of factual information from him. However, when it comes to something that is a particular marketing point of his products, filter and digital artefacts for example, he’s not just happy bending the truth a bit but goes completely nuts, way beyond even la la land.

And there’s the problem, how is the average audiophile going to know what they should learn and what they must dismiss because it’s bat crap crazy? And to make matters worse, obviously different companies have different marketing points, so an engineer/Marketer might be truthful and lying about different areas of audio to Rob Watts or another engineer/Marketer from another company and there are now hardly any independent engineers left, willing to engage with the audiophile community, who don’t have a horse in the race and therefore nothing to gain from pushing BS in any area of audio. So it’s hardly surprising that audiophiles are utterly confused and contradict themselves all the time (regardless of whether they realise it) because the only authoritative sources they have access to are feeding them confusing and contradictory information.

G

 

[MiffyRabbit]

Yep, you’ve got it and Rob Watts is a good example. A lot of what he says is entirely true and audiophiles could learn a lot of factual information from him. However, when it comes to something that is a particular marketing point of his products, filter and digital artefacts for example, he’s not just happy bending the truth a bit but goes completely nuts, way beyond even la la land.

And there’s the problem, how is the average audiophile going to know what they should learn and what they must dismiss because it’s bat crap crazy? And to make matters worse, obviously different companies have different marketing points, so an engineer/Marketer might be truthful and lying about different areas of audio to Rob Watts or another engineer/Marketer from another company and there are now hardly any independent engineers left, willing to engage with the audiophile community, who don’t have a horse in the race and therefore nothing to gain from pushing BS in any area of audio. So it’s hardly surprising that audiophiles are utterly confused and contradict themselves all the time (regardless of whether they realise it) because the only authoritative sources they have access to are feeding them confusing and contradictory information.

G

I also really appreciate what you and others do here in Sound Science. I've saved a lot of money and really kept my audio products super simple, as long as the DAC & AMP are not defective, doing odd things.

I can understand a lot of those companies wanting to get a cut of the money in this hobby. Audio Engineers getting snatched up into these companies to sell products. It's in the company's best interest to promote ideas to sell audio gear.

I know for sure I would have been chasing after expensive solid state amps or tube amps, spending a lot of money trying to recreate what I experienced at an opera house with acoustics, environment that I cannot match in my home or even my portable setup. Trying to get a "studio level quality" that I was never there personally and have no idea how the studio was set up for the recording. Many factors are out of our control but many companies want to promote products that make us believe we can achieve that and more.

 

[Ghoostknight]

Just stop questioning, accept that marketing tells you the truth and think you have the best and be happy. Sometimes, being happy is worth more than the burden of knowledge.

questioning isnt just comparing measurements graph and going with the lower measuring one, its even sillier todo so while complaining to people that stuff under -70db cant be heared in the "sound science forum"

 

[betula]

Sorry @gregorio and @Vamp898, it is just not a discussion I can take seriously. All amps sound the same? If I hear a difference that means the amp is faulty or poorly made? If I find an amp boring, that in fact means the headphones are boring (which are probably the most exciting sounding headphones I have ever heard). To me it is just utter BS and simply ridiculous. Like arguing with a blind man about the shade of blue you see on the sky. Or saying every violin sound the same because they have 4 strings.
I thought I am just leaving a random post in a random thread, haven't realised I am in the science section. (Almost as bad as ASR.) Put my hand in the wrong beehive, I guess. Your combative and unkind, almost hostile attitude also doesn't help too much. We simply live in two different realities. To me amps make the second biggest difference in the audio chain after headphones. If you can't hear that difference or consider it to be a fault, you are probably in the wrong hobby.