[SP Wild]

IME, IMHO etc...........

 

[plonter]

sorry if i forgot to mention,it was in my signature until yesterday (can't figure out how to edit the signature right) but i am using the headroom ultra micro dac.
it supposed to be of a high level..that's why i can't eccept that the usb reciever chip is of a poor quality.    
 
i am very noob in computers,so can somebody please explain to me shortly and simply how exactly usb works?  after that foobar decods the flac files (or whatever..)
what is the way they need to travel until they reach the usb port in my computer front panel?      and what is the main difference between the usb and the on board soundcard if they both are actually...well...the motherboard.   or i missing something here?

 

[SP Wild]

To put it in perspective, I paid AUS$3200 for my Bryston BDA-1 dac.  Its USB input - rubbish!
 
Thats all the knowledge I have in regards to USB - I can't answer your questions specifically - it's beyond my technical understanding.  Its all voodoo as far as I know!

 

[xnor]

Quote:

Thats all the knowledge I have in regards to USB - I can't answer your questions specifically - it's beyond my technical understanding.  Its all voodoo as far as I know!

Then please don't comment on things you don't understand.
 
 
 
Quote:

To put it in perspective, I paid AUS$3200 for my Bryston BDA-1 dac.  Its USB input - rubbish!

 
Right. Measurements with an RME soundcard showed that jitter dropped from 456 to just 98ps using USB instead of TosLink. So what the .. are you talking about?
 
 
@plonter: Don't worry too much..

 

[SP Wild]

 
Quote:

Then please don't comment on things you don't understand.
 
 
 
 
Right. Measurements with an RME soundcard showed that jitter dropped from 456 to just 98ps using USB instead of TosLink. So what the .. are you talking about?
 
 
@plonter: Don't worry too much..

I comment on what I hear, how I achieved it and what I've learned regarding the technical aspects of digital audio.  Are you suggesting Plonter carry out a DBT to prove what he heard was real?
 
Can you provide a link to the Bryston USB input jitter measurements?

 

[xnor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SP Wild /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Are you suggesting Plonter carry out a DBT to prove what he heard was real?
 
Can you provide a link to the Bryston USB input jitter measurements?

 
1) Can you read? I suggested him not to worry too much.
 
2) Yes, I could provide a link. Can you provide links on reviews or whatever that confirm what you say?
 

 

[plonter]

right now the sound i am getting from my computer usb is very good in general.  but the treble is still more prominent and sharp comparing to the marantz optical out.
I still interested to know where this different is coming from.  it could be either my computer's usb output,or the dac usb reciever chip.   I guess i will not know for sure until i experiment in differente setups,like using the onbaord s/pdif out.
anyway,i am not worring too much since i am really enjoy the sound i am getting right now...just had to EQ the treble down by one notch because it is too hot.
 
i am very curious in general about how usb works...from foobar to the usb output.  so if somebody could explain the "usb path" in short i will be thankful.

 

[Slogra]

I have a gigabyte motherboard, also with Realtek sound (ALC 889 to be exact) and it's bitperfect at 44.1khz.
 
Try setting the samplerate of the digital output to 44.1khz and you should be ok,

 

[xnor]

plonter, the most simple explanation would be that the decoded audio will be passed to the streaming subsystem (which runs in kernel mode, that means it has higher priority than normal processes) of Windows, which will then send the audio data in 1ms chunks over usb to the usb receiver in your dac. The receiver will buffer that chunk and pass it on to D/A conversion.

 

[plonter]

Quote:

plonter, the most simple explanation would be that the decoded audio will be passed to the streaming subsystem (which runs in kernel mode, that means it has higher priority than normal processes) of Windows, which will then send the audio data in 1ms chunks over usb to the usb receiver in your dac. The receiver will buffer that chunk and pass it on to D/A conversion.

thx. but the usb has some connection to the motherboard? (like everything else in the computer)   does it phisically touches it?  only this..i will not hijack this thread anymore,promise!

 

[xnor]

Usb usually is not galvanically isolated, if that's what you mean. But it doesn't have to to sound and measure excellent.

 

[SP Wild]

Here's a link to a post by Gordon at Wavelength regarding USB protocols,  just scroll down to the third post.  Obviously Xnor has a better technical grasp than I do - I am simply coming from an end users perspective as shared by some other enthusiasts.  Hope you can find the cause of your treble issues Plonter - all the best.

 

[Alexander01]

This discussion shouldn't be: DAC through USB or Optical-out, but:
 
 
external DAC or internal Soundcard?!
 
 
I say internal Soundcard! When you use a high quality internal soudcard with a good computer power supply (low ripple Seasonic based units), the sound quality will be much better then when you use an external dac with your computer. External DACs (through USB or onboard SPDIF out) mostly sounds flat, lifeless and low-fi due high jitter caused by the computer clock. A good Internal soundcard have much better soundstage, emotion, warmth, bass response etc. It's just more musical.
 
Maybe if you spend a few 1000 dollars to the Ayre QB-9 async DAC you get the same performance like a high quality internal soundcard of 200-300 dollar.

 

[flaming_june]

 
Once we study the archisexture (How I met your mother reference) of a standard intel or nvidia based NB/SB mobo, I think y'all will realize why you are not bypassing the mobo sound chip via toslink or spdif.  However it still offers better sampling rate than USB.  I've slept around 2 hours in the last 3 days so once I wake up in an hour, go to work and come back tonight, then slept a good 15 hours I'll post some articles that basically says the same thing as I'm saying atm.  
 
I've tried many different ways, and to tell you the truth:
 
I cannot reject the null hypothesis that the sound quality is significantly better by bypassing the mobo sound card via pcie sound card - toslink -dac at high sampling rate, compared to mobo - toslink -dac at high sampling rate.
 
However I can reject via that usb to dac at low sampling rate does not sound different than toslink at high sampling rate.  It sound better it most trials I've ran.
 
Quote:

i still don't fully understand something,i would like you guys to explain it to me like i am a 6 years old.  
if the "onboard" sound card is actually a part of the motherboard...and the usb output of the computer is also coming from the motherboard,than what is the difference between the two? (is there any difference at all?)     
i mean..if i can get the on board spdif out to work with wasapi,shouldn't it be the same like using wasapi with usb?

 

[leeperry]

I can reject via that usb to dac at low sampling rate does not sound different than toslink at high sampling rate.

I can attest that a quality coax connection sounds far better than any toslink in the world...even 65 strands toslink. And there is not galvanic isolation to coax on a mobo sound chip, or USB for that matter.