[cotdt]

Team Source first! It's debatable whether sources or headphones make the greater difference in sound, but in my experience sources definately make a much greater difference than between amps. Sometimes I even think interconnects make a greater difference than between amps.

 

[3x331m]

I'm a system kind of guy. My chain is only as strong as the weakest link..

Hence, the game never end....Continuing to improve the weakest link(s)... one at a time

 

[rincewind]

Garbage In, Garbage Out. The biggest upgrade I've had (regardless of cost) was by far my source (Storm D02). Going from HD650 to K701 was "heh! I've been missing this... and that... and...". Adding the Gilmore Lite was "Cool! fuller sound... been missing these furthest reaches of frequency response" but a significant source upgrade was "HOLY #(*&#%(*&#% 3D sound and simply more real"

While I'm not a source first guy because having a bad amp or cans/speakers down the chain won't show the complete signal you're giving them, I definitely believe in matching your components in quality. I'd go maybe 40% source, 30%amp, 30% cones. But then that's a useless and vague generalisation which would always have exceptions depending on what deals you found.

Yeah, what 3x331m said! Anything outright 'bad' in the chain will mess you up.

I know, a good analogy: Listening to music is like looking through a window. The SIZE of the window is how good and clean your frequency response etc of your cans/speakers are. How CLEAN the window is determines how true/honest your view is to the source, but the source is the view we are looking at. If the view is a desolate wasteland and everything else is great (amp/cans) then great.... 100% accurate view of JUNK. But conversely, an tiny and really dirty window won't show much of a fantastic view. You have to aim for all three

 

[sejarzo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 003 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Headphones make the biggest difference. The next biggest difference comes from the source and the last thing to make a difference is the amp. This is 100% from personal experience. Not based on ANYTHING I have heard from others. I now subscribe to believing what I hear personally. Not believing what OTHERS say about how something sounds. And quite frankly I am a lot happier now, and I also am a lot more secure with my own opinions (which I obviously deem to be accurate).

x2. Been that way forever in the audio world, speakers or headphones......although I would argue in the "speaker world" that the room and speakers are equally important (which is why I have turned to headphones for the most part!)

Amps theoretically should all sound alike--reproducing the input waveform at a higher level at the output, no more, no less. If they don't, they are adding distortion. Modern circuits can do that pretty well, measurements prove that.

Likewise, the source DAC function should in theory simply spit out the same voltage waveform that went into the ADC at mastering, right? Sure, there are practical limits, but overall, as the technology improves, the difference between the ultimate and the merely affordable should dwindle, and it certainly appears to be the case.

But headphones and speakers have to transcend the purely electrical domain, and that's the biggest challenge.

 

[3x331m]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sejarzo /img/forum/go_quote.gif x2. Been that way forever in the audio world, speakers or headphones......although I would argue in the "speaker world" that the room and speakers are equally important (which is why I have turned to headphones for the most part!) Amps theoretically should all sound alike--reproducing the input waveform at a higher level at the output, no more, no less. If they don't, they are adding distortion. Modern circuits can do that pretty well, measurements prove that. Likewise, the source DAC function should in theory simply spit out the same voltage waveform that went into the ADC at mastering, right? Sure, there are practical limits, but overall, as the technology improves, the difference between the ultimate and the merely affordable should dwindle, and it certainly appears to be the case. But headphones and speakers have to transcend the purely electrical domain, and that's the biggest challenge.

I respect your points. However, that would be boring. It's just like everyone has a same copy of a Monet painting.

 

[sejarzo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3x331m /img/forum/go_quote.gif I respect your points. However, that would be boring. It's just like everyone has a same copy of a Monet painting.

And likewise, I respect yours. Whatever allows you to most enjoy the music you love is what you should be using, regardless of what anyone else thinks you should be using, or hearing!

Interesting, that painting reference.....to me, recordings are much more like paintings (artistic renderings that are not strictly accurate) than photographs or videos (that are also not strictly accurate, but more matter of fact.)

The gear just allows us to view those paintings in the way we can most appreciate them.

 

[krmathis]

**** in = **** out
So I personally prefer to have a source on par with the rest of my system. Others are of course allowed to do whatever they like...

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rincewind /img/forum/go_quote.gif Garbage In, Garbage Out. The biggest upgrade I've had (regardless of cost) was by far my source (Storm D02). Going from HD650 to K701 was "heh! I've been missing this... and that... and...". Adding the Gilmore Lite was "Cool! fuller sound... been missing these furthest reaches of frequency response" but a significant source upgrade was "HOLY #(*&#%(*&#% 3D sound and simply more real"

i agree with all this. the G08 has by far been the biggest improvement ever made in my system. the music has really never sounded better: a huge sense of space and depth, great detail and texture, and a very natural non-digital sound to the music. it does not play; it flows. other upgrades - source or amp - was more of okay this sounds a little better, a little more this and that, etc, not bad; but the G08, was immediate: wow! this is a serious improvement. it took me all of 5 seconds to confirm how much better it was when compared to my other sources. in general, i rank the importance of gear as Source - Headphones - Amp, assuming of course that each component in the chain is at least of minimal competence, which has also been mentioned by others.

 

[itsborken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rincewind /img/forum/go_quote.gif Garbage In, Garbage Out.

x2, thats my experience too. I just wish a lot of the CDs I had measured up to the rest of my equipment

 

[Azure]

I've noticed people skimping out on the source as well. A lot of people seem to prefer to spend more money on the amplifier than the source. I just saw somebody's signature and it looks like this guy's rig will be iPod Shuffle -> Singlepower Extreme Platinum -> Grado GS1000

I've seen so many people spend $1000 or more on their headphone/amp combo, but still just use a CE595 or something as the source. In my experience, aside from the headphone, the source has made the greatest improvement in sound quality (though I did notice a bigger difference in sound quality with CE595 -> Stock Zhaolu D2.0C than SA1000 -> SA5000).

People just seem to be more interested in amplifiers for some reason (just look at the number of posts in the source forum compared to the headphone amp forum), which can make this place occasionally lonely. I think the seemingly constant supply of new amps being made available from our sponsors may be one reason why everybody flocks to headphone amplifiers before sources.

 

[Redo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've noticed people skimping out on the source as well. A lot of people seem to prefer to spend more money on the amplifier than the source. I just saw somebody's signature and it looks like this guy's rig will be iPod Shuffle -> Singlepower Extreme Platinum -> Grado GS1000 I've seen so many people spend $1000 or more on their headphone/amp combo, but still just use a CE595 or something as the source. In my experience, aside from the headphone, the source has made the greatest improvement in sound quality (though I did notice a bigger difference in sound quality with CE595 -> Stock Zhaolu D2.0C than SA1000 -> SA5000). People just seem to be more interested in amplifiers for some reason (just look at the number of posts in the source forum compared to the headphone amp forum), which can make this place occasionally lonely. I think the seemingly constant supply of new amps being made available from our sponsors may be one reason why everybody flocks to headphone amplifiers before sources.

There's good reason for this. People want to own nice headphones, and doing so also requires proper amplification. Next is discovering exactly which headphone fits the person's taste.

The big source upgrades come last, and usually is best once the listener has complete trust that their gear is right for them. My next upgrade will be my source, but I just needed to get the proper amp first. I'm not made of money =b

 

[lan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarium /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think the simple reason is that headphones and amps get obsoleted a lot slower than sources.

Really? Aren't there more headphone amps and headphones announcements than sources?

 

[granodemostasa]

I concentrated on headphone first, then my amp. and my source was the last to really get going. in all honesty, I conducted my source search with much more variety than my headphone search. once i heard the HD650, i knew i didn't want another. once i heard the Zana Deux, I was going to buy it. but the source thing is far more difficult....

one day my sig will say: Esoteric D-03>cmoy>PX100

 

[003]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just saw somebody's signature and it looks like this guy's rig will be iPod Shuffle -> Singlepower Extreme Platinum -> Grado GS1000

Lol I know who you're talking about

 

[Asr]

I think it's more that the subject of source isn't pushed enough. A situation of ignorance on the whole audiophile concept - people just don't know where the core of hi-fi sound exists. Why do you think so many people listen to digital files on their DAPs or computers? Usually the people who listen to optical discs have comparatively higher-end systems. Most people are just unitiated, they don't know what they don't know - they think amps are a fix-all for headphones that don't sound ideal, they don't know that headphones like the K701 and HD650 were built for audiophiles and not the mass market, they look at CDs as relics of the past and wonder why they're still around.

If it weren't for sites like Head-Fi though, the masses wouldn't get educated.